"Theorise less, listen more and learn more"

[Julf]

You can't, hence the complete pointlessness of these circular point scoring arguments.

We cannot bash people down for having an opinion one way or another we can only really state that our experiences are different and these are the reasons why. we believe what what we believe

And if humanity was still stuck in that box, it would be pretty bad. Fortunately we aren't. We have this wonderful system called The Scientific Method.

"Scientific researchers propose hypotheses as explanations of phenomena and design experimental studies to test these hypotheses via predictions which can be derived from them. These steps must be repeatable to guard against mistake or confusion in any particular experimenter."

Then of course we'll debate if the banana skin, or the ladder, or the scientist is the important part. We'll probably never ask why we are stuck in box with other monkeys, having a massive punch up over an imaginary or otherwise piece of yellow fruit ( or is banana technically) a vegetable?

How do you know if you haven't tried?

 

[martinm]

And if humanity was still stuck in that box, it would be pretty bad. Fortunately we aren't. We have this wonderful system called The Scientific Method.

"Scientific researchers propose hypotheses as explanations of phenomena and design experimental studies to test these hypotheses via predictions which can be derived from them. These steps must be repeatable to guard against mistake or confusion in any particular experimenter."




How do you know if you haven't tried?

Will have to check out the video whilst not a work, though having a best mate who is an engineer I suspect I'll find it funny. My previous profession he used to 'lovingly' describe as underwater basket weaving. I found it quite easy to get what I wanted from him work wise though I just told him he couldn't do it

In reference to the box I meant the hifi box and that we are all arguing about stuff that to anyone looking in is totally bonkers anyway!

 

[ItemAudio]

Indeed. The tragedy of free speech and democracy.

You seem to be confusing your media: a forum is a place for free speech. The reader picks and chooses from the many expressed opinions - often conflicting - even among experts.

We need a bit less of the unilateral self-appointment of 'guardians of knowledge' - by individuals who, in reality, are just another voice in the mix.

It's pretty boring reading folks endlessly proclaiming chapter and verse on the limits of the possible who barely seem to know how to tie their shoelaces.

I have to say I just don't read PFM as much as I used to: the signal-to-noise ratio in the Audio room is intolerable. It's much better in the Classic and DIY sections.

 

[S-Man]

The reader picks and chooses from the many expressed opinions - often conflicting - even among experts.

We need a bit less of the unilateral self-appointment of 'guardians of knowledge' - by individuals who, in reality, are just another voice in the mix.

Very well put. This should be a sticky.

 

[Julf]

You seem to be confusing your media: a forum is a place for free speech. The reader picks and chooses from the many expressed opinions - often conflicting - even among experts.

Absolutely. So just ignore the stuff that offends you.

We need a bit less of the unilateral self-appointment of 'guardians of knowledge' - by individuals who, in reality, are just another voice in the mix.

Ah, so free speech is OK - until it conflicts with your views?

It's pretty boring reading folks endlessly proclaiming chapter and verse on the limits of the possible who barely seem to know how to tie their shoelaces.

Just as it is pretty boring reading folks endlessly proclaiming their subjective view is the Right One, and quoting a bunc of pseudoscience to support their views, despite the fact that they barely seem to know their Nyquist from their sinc(x) - but at least we can be glad they know how to tie their shoelaces.

 

[adamdea]

I have to say I just don't read PFM as much as I used to: the signal-to-noise ratio in the Audio room is intolerable. It's much better in the Classic and DIY sections.

It's the unintentional humour I come for.

 

[Julf]

Will have to check out the video whilst not a work, though having a best mate who is an engineer I suspect I'll find it funny.

I am pretty sure you will

In reference to the box I meant the hifi box and that we are all arguing about stuff that to anyone looking in is totally bonkers anyway!

I agree. I am sure I have mentioned that in colloquial Finnish, "to hifi" is pretty much behaving like the equivalent of someone wearing a certain type of lined coat with hood that is derived from a traditional inuit garment...

 

[darrenyeats]

How do you know if you haven't tried?

All too close to reality!

 

[Julf]

All too close to reality!

I know - it is a bit like Dilbert. Some days I just go "that is too close to reality to be funny".

 

[maxflinn]

How do you know if you haven't tried?

So what's the problem?

A) Geometry.

Oh just ignore it

 

[ItemAudio]

Absolutely. So just ignore the stuff that offends you.

You're very much preaching to the converted . . .

Ah, so free speech is OK - until it conflicts with your views?

. . . but confusing the issue: I'm arguing for free speech: people will disagree; views will conflict. That's OK. In fact, for a forum, it's essential.

The problem as I see it is that a few folks have attempted to give their pet theories (opinions) the force of Law. What's particularly entertaining - when combined with the lack of experience - is the spurious co-option by of 'Science' by these posters as a tool to suppress - rather than encourage - discussion among the plebs.

Just as it is pretty boring reading folks endlessly proclaiming their subjective view is the Right One, and quoting a bunc of pseudoscience to support their views, despite the fact that they barely seem to know their Nyquist from their sinc(x) - but at least we can be glad they know how to tie their shoelaces.

We just don't see this on PFM. We see people cautiously casting their tiny subjective views into a headwind of hostility. We see potentially interesting questions rebuffed as 'impossible'.

Sometimes we see people stand up and say “It may be 'wrong', but I like it. It's my money, and I assert my right to turn it into my listening pleasure as I choose.”

The only ugly dictatorial behaviour we see comes from the self-styled 'objectivists' who sometimes manage to be simultaneously disrespectful on a personal level and mistaken on a technical one. Any forum has to put up with an element of this, but when it becomes the dominant tone, something is badly wrong.

 

[ItemAudio]

I agree. I am sure I have mentioned that in colloquial Finnish, "to hifi" is pretty much behaving like the equivalent of someone wearing a certain type of lined coat with hood that is derived from a traditional inuit garment...

. . . although this input was genuinely enlightening. Thank you!

 

[Julf]

The problem as I see it is that a few folks have attempted to give their pet theories (opinions) the force of Law.

But that doesn't seem to limit your freedom of speech too badly.

What's particularly entertaining - when combined with the lack of experience - is the spurious co-option by of 'Science' by these posters as a tool to suppress - rather than encourage - discussion among the plebs.

"Science as a tool to silence the plebs"... I like that!

Sometimes we see people stand up and say “It may be 'wrong', but I like it. It's my money, and I assert my right to turn it into my listening pleasure as I choose.”

We see that expressed pretty often, and it is usually received quite positively.

The only ugly dictatorial behaviour we see comes from the self-styled 'objectivists' who sometimes manage to be simultaneously disrespectful on a personal level and mistaken on a technical one. Any forum has to put up with an element of this, but when it becomes the dominant tone, something is badly wrong.

Indeed! I suggest Tony L should immediately remove the dictatorial special privileges from those users!

 

[TheDecameron]

Procrastinate less, jazzercise more.

 

[formbypc]

Indeed! I suggest Tony L should immediately remove the dictatorial special privileges from those users!

Or you could just stop posting for a while. Over 20 posts already today from you, most in this thread, starting before 8am..... strewth.

Could you;

Let the others talk for a bit.
Melt into the background a touch.
Give your fingers a rest.

???

 

[Julf]

OK, seems Item is right.

It is clearly the rabid "objectivists" and "rationalists" who want to restrict free speech.

Or you could just stop posting for a while. Over 20 posts already today from you, most in this thread, starting before 8am..... strewth.

Could you;

Let the others talk for a bit.
Melt into the background a touch.
Give your fingers a rest.

???

 

[maxflinn]

I thought that this forum seemed to be chugging along nicely after all the obj/sub stuff from last summer was sorted out.

But then there was much talk of boutique USB cables, and.....

 

[formbypc]

It is clearly the rabid "objectivists" and "rationalists" who want to restrict free speech.

Oh, clearly it is so ..... when your version of 'free speech' is to have a comment rebutting absolutely EVERYTHING non-congruent with your point of view..... thus turning it into the 'julf forum'.

You don't HAVE to have every second or third post all to yourself, you know..... step away from the keyboard occasionally.

If you think I'm 'rabidly' restricting your free speech, you can always report me to the forum moderator....

 

[abbydog]

Once upon a time, we had a consumer press interested in sales and a few dealers interested in customers.

Once upon a time, the consumer press had a vested interest in not alienating a considerable percentage of its readership by presenting a balanced point of view.

And dealers knew the best way to thrive was to act in the best interests of their customers.

Unfortunately, circulations sank and magazine survival depended on 'branded content' or whatever the current parlance is.

Dealers became manufacturer agents with slimmer margins, targets to hit and lots of wire to help.

Remaining readers and customers headed off to forums for a more balanced view.

And we can all see what is happening to them, now, can't we? We can all see the pressures being brought to bear, even cemented into the AUP in certain places.

So I think objectivists, axe or no axe, and subjectivists, batty or not, are really very important. A mix of views should be preserved at all costs and, if its not, time to move on.

 

[darrenyeats]

So I think objectivists, axe or no axe, and subjectivists, batty or not, are really very important. A mix of views should be preserved at all costs and, if its not, time to move on.

I agree about the mix of views. It gets very boring when one camp dominates.

Whatever the views, there is a positive way to express them. This is by and large a polite forum (contrast with the Wam) despite being a very interesting one ... I would like to see that continue.