FIFY
I can imagine Dr Spock and his lerbsian crew getting jiggly to the ballad of "something something theorise less"
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"Theorise less, listen more and learn more"
- Thread starter Fox
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FIFY
I can imagine Dr Spock and his lerbsian crew getting jiggly to the ballad of "something something theorise less"
merlin
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If people say calves liver is tasty and puts hairs on your chest do you also consult the oracle Julf?
The language of the audiophile is flowery and creative. The world of the audiophile of colourful - in much the same way as a musician or a poet.
The language of a prosaic scientist is clear concise and very monotone. Creativity is frowned upon. The science world and it's artistic counterpart inhabit parallel universes.
The last time I looked, this was the Pink Fish Audio room, and not the Pink Fish HiFi Forum. The latter exists in the black and white world of the scientist to my mind. The former needs far more freedom of thought in order to breathe normally.
Right now, I don't think it's getting any air which is a shame.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Dowser
Learning to bodge again..
A bit of a profound statement, but I agree - I joined because I was a not very good electronics technician looking for advice on how to build a decent PSU for a naim preamp, so stayed in the DIYroom. Lots of varied approaches were offered - by trying I learned which solutions I preferred. Life was good.
. No one would state that alternative solutions were wrong, but simply comment how they felt about differences.I slowly ventured here into audio room & found a whole bunch of folks categorically stating what was wrong & right - a bit of a culture shock. I post here mainly because I agree this is (or should be) a music enjoyment forum, & feel most of the Polizei can't possibly listen to music the way I do (or they would not be so stupid as to draw lines in the sand), and feel the balance needs occasional redressing
And I'm off to eat Kalbsleber und Rösti this weekend
Julf
Facts are our friends
No, I would just reply "if you say so".
Especially in the marketing department.
And that, in itself, carries great beauty.
Rather the opposite.
I'd bet you would have a rather hard time to get people to agree on any sort of definitions for the words "audio" and "hifi".
Julf
Facts are our friends
A bit of a profound statement, but I agree - I joined because I was a not very good electronics technician looking for advice on how to build a decent PSU for a naim preamp, so stayed in the DIYroom. Lots of varied approaches were offered - by trying I learned which solutions I preferred. Life was good.
No one would state that alternative solutions were wrong - because you were trying out something for yourself and only yourself. You were not claiming to know better than the electronics textbooks.
What if somebody had written "My circuit needs 5 V 1 A, and I have a power supply that provides 20 V 250 mA, so it is OK to use it because they both have the same amount of watts". Is the correct answer "Wow, that's creative! Go for it, man!"? How about if someone writes "I have heard that amps sound better if you remove the mains transformer (it only limits current anyway) and connect the mains directly"?
Dowser
Learning to bodge again..
LOL Julf - OK, but what if I say I can hear a difference between different rectifier diode junction types, or between centre-tapped xer config and normal, or that the difference between using 2 pairs of cat5 cable for postitive and negative connections per rail, to connect a PSU to a pre requiring less than 200mA, versus using thicker mains cable sounded different?
And anyhow, that's kind of beside the point - I was simply trying to highlight differences between the DIY and Audio rooms - truth remains that if I was a newbie here, and posted in the Audio room that I had just replaced the stock USB cable that came with my DAC with one that cost £100, think it sounds much better and suggest others try it for themselves, one of the first 5 responses would be, "Yeah, expectation bias, otherwise you wasted £100" or "A fool and his money" or "Ah, but did you ABX it blind and level matched"...do I need to go on? Yet as the OP I would have made no claim outside of a personal preference, but the Polizei would be all over me like a rash...protecting the innocent, doing good, correcting wrongs, even reducing the global sales of foo...but also halting any meaningful conversation.
Oh well
And anyhow, that's kind of beside the point - I was simply trying to highlight differences between the DIY and Audio rooms - truth remains that if I was a newbie here, and posted in the Audio room that I had just replaced the stock USB cable that came with my DAC with one that cost £100, think it sounds much better and suggest others try it for themselves, one of the first 5 responses would be, "Yeah, expectation bias, otherwise you wasted £100" or "A fool and his money" or "Ah, but did you ABX it blind and level matched"...do I need to go on?
Yet as the OP I would have made no claim outside of a personal preference, but the Polizei would be all over me like a rash...protecting the innocent, doing good, correcting wrongs, even reducing the global sales of foo...but also halting any meaningful conversation.Oh well
merlin
Avatar changed - Town names deemed offensive.
In the right discussion without doubt. It suffocates and destroys many though - and in doing so it rather curtails the unscientific person's fun.
This is why IMO there is only very limited and controlled use of it in hobby publications. It would kill the enjoyment of reading and in so doing, cripple sales.
With the printed media, there is a cost of admission. A purchase price and no guaranteed right of reply to the written word. Enthusiasts can happily indulge their fantasies without fear of rebuke.
Sadly (in some respects) audio forums are open to all which can lead to those with no real interest in the subject matter having a free hand to rebuke and decry.
The eternal problem for audio forums. Where to draw the line. How to encourage debate that is interesting and sustainable ?
I'd agree, but for my purposes, the latter is high fidelity to the source signal and the former is anything that makes your listening to music more enjoyable.
And anyhow, that's kind of beside the point - I was simply trying to highlight differences between the DIY and Audio rooms - truth remains that if I was a newbie here, and posted in the Audio room that I had just replaced the stock USB cable that came with my DAC with one that cost £100, think it sounds much better and suggest others try it for themselves, one of the first 5 responses would be, "Yeah, expectation bias, otherwise you wasted £100" or "A fool and his money" or "Ah, but did you ABX it blind and level matched"...do I need to go on?
Oh well
It does the forum a great disservice: meaningful conversation about digital topics has halted. To begin one feels like poking your head above the parapet. Shame.
S-Man
StrivingON
Come on Julf, a man of your considerable technical prowess will know that anyone who can calculate the amount of watts in both these examples would never need to ask such a dim question!
I also challenge you to find such a banal reply to any type of question, in the DIY room.
I feel sure there must be a word for your type of Continual-Ridiculous-Argument-Proliferating.
whatsnext
Naimless
if I was a newbie here, and posted in the Audio room that I had just replaced the stock USB cable that came with my DAC with one that cost £100, think it sounds much better and suggest others try it for themselves,
Oh well
How would you and others feel if I were to say:
I tried that cable and it made no difference in fact I tried 8 different cables and none did?
Which is my experience despite the postings of ItemAudio. In fact I have one of the range that he sells as recommended arriving today if all goes well with post and I can explore the truth of his assertion -
People don't just post anti digital things for fun they equally have experiences that differ. Strange they are not allowed a voice as much as those who do hear miraculous things and tell others to try/use their favoured items
Dowser
Learning to bodge again..
No problem from me (as long as you don't proclaim that therefore all USB cables sound the same, without qualifying it as in your experience or opinion).
There are extremists on both sides of the fence, and both add limited value currently in my opinion. I am very surprised you feel you are not allowed a voice...the PFM Polizei don't seem to know this
I would love to understand more about digital cables and their impact, but unless we can have reasoned discussion it will never happen - my own view is that I don't understand how they can impact sound, given the transport mechanism is handled by the devices attached by the cable, but given we are joining earth return paths (and in some cases also running power over the same cable) then there are some variables.
Richard
darrenyeats
pfm Member
But no-one responds that it's impossible you hear no difference.
Whereas the same often doesn't hold in the opposite direction.
maxflinn
pfm Member
Audible differences between USB cables are not possible.
People with vested interests want others to believe that this is not the case.
People with no vested interests who claim they have heard differences get annoyed when others present reality.
As avole said, there are far more important things in the world to be concerned about.
People with vested interests want others to believe that this is not the case.
People with no vested interests who claim they have heard differences get annoyed when others present reality.
As avole said, there are far more important things in the world to be concerned about.
whatsnext
Naimless
No problem from me (as long as you don't proclaim that therefore all USB cables sound the same, without qualifying it as in your experience or opinion).
There are extremists on both sides of the fence, and both add limited value currently in my opinion. I am very surprised you feel you are not allowed a voice...the PFM Polizei don't seem to know this
I would love to understand more about digital cables and their impact, but unless we can have reasoned discussion it will never happen - my own view is that I don't understand how they can impact sound, given the transport mechanism is handled by the devices attached by the cable, but given we are joining earth return paths (and in some cases also running power over the same cable) then there are some variables.
Richard
Richard
Thank you for you informed position. I assumed I heard nothing different because of the isolation of power supply lines my DAC provides. Pitty that isn't spoken about and it is invariably the saleable item, a cable, to fix the shortcomings of the rest of the system
darrenyeats
pfm Member
Max, you are too absolute in your statements. You should sprinkle a few "almost certainly"s in there, in my opinion.
Julf
Facts are our friends
If you stated it in that way - "I can hear", I think it is OK to ask under what conditions you heard the difference, and people with technical knowledge should be free to point out why a physical explanation is likely or unlikely.
truth remains that if I was a newbie here, and posted in the Audio room that I had just replaced the stock USB cable that came with my DAC with one that cost £100, think it sounds much better and suggest others try it for themselves, one of the first 5 responses would be, "Yeah, expectation bias, otherwise you wasted £100" or "A fool and his money" or "Ah, but did you ABX it blind and level matched"...do I need to go on?
Of those 5 responses, the only justified one is the one seeking clarification on the listening conditions, and perhaps pointing out that as long as proper controls and blind listening protocol wasn't adhered to, reasons other than the physical properties of the cable might play into it.
Julf
Facts are our friends
Sure. But likewise all the foo, woo and voodoo rather curtails the fun for any rational person.
True, because hobby publications are entertainment media that tries to maximize revenue.
Indeed. The tragedy of free speech and democracy.