Speed limiters, driver monitors to become mandatory in EU

[Tony Lockhart]

I’ve read a couple of articles that say self driving vehicles for the masses aren’t going to be around for about 20 years. There are a lot of issues, and more keep arising, as we should expect. Unknown unknowns?

 

[Whaleblue]

Daft question Whaleblue - if a family member or indeed any friend of mine were to be killed by a driver outside or indeed within any 'limit' I'd feel the same as you.
It's poor driving that causes deaths, not failure to comply with blanket speed limits.

Yes it was a daft question, but as you see it’s a subject that gets under my skin. Apologies for the tone.

The issue as I see it is that too many of us think that we’re good drivers. When was the last time you heard a driver admit that they were, in fact, pretty poor.

One thing is for sure, incompetence at 30mph causes less destruction than incompetence at 40mph on the same stretch of road.

Speed limits forced upon drivers is indeed a blunt tool, but I welcome it.

 

[Whaleblue]

Read my other post (No.50), then, ignoring your posturing silverback thing, which of us is the more dangerous person? The bloke who occasionally would use the freedom to have some fun under carefully considered circumstances....a burst of 80+ on an empty road, to make me smile, or the bloke wiling to murder someone who may just have made a mistake?

OK, I’ll back up and apologise for my tone.

However your statement “My risk and my accepted punishment.” is just mad. We can’t allow folk to make decisions of this magnitude. That’s where a little government (call it nanny if you must) intervention is highly warranted.

P.S. you rather missed my point. The government imposes rules on us such that murder is not a decision we can take into our own hands without consequence.

 

[stevec67]

I suspect that when AI self driving becomes standard, maybe in then years time, that manual vehicles will be confined to the equivalent of zoos very quickly. This won't be a slow turnover

As ever it's going to depend upon the implementation. If I can buy a car that enables me to say "Take me to XYZ postcode" and then crawl into the back and go to sleep, I'm all ears. I'll buy it tomorrow. Monday mornings and Friday evenings will be great. However if as I suspect it will simply be a series of driver aids and I still have to be awake, I'll be less keen. I already have cruise control, and I've hired cars with lane assist (not interested) and brake alert. The last thing I want when I've been a plonker and nearly run up the back of the guy in front is a dashboard message saying "look out in front!" at precisely the moment when I really, really shouldn't be looking down at the dashboard. Meanwhile we live in a world where most cars last for ~15 years unless an accident or other incident shortens their lives. That will slow down adoption of all but totally autonomous cars.

 

[-alan-]

Yes it was a daft question, but as you see it’s a subject that gets under my skin. Apologies for the tone.

No offence taken at all - the topic gets under my skin too.

I've spent a fair bit of time over the years competing in both bikes and cars, and used to be an active member on one of the IAM car-groups. I do take a fair bit of pride in my riding and driving, but do like everybody, probably fall into the trap of thinking I'm a better driver than I am. I do always try to keep a open mind and recognise when I'm taking more risk than I should.

What bugs the life out of me is the view from on-high that blanket / ever-tightening speed limits and enforcement are the panacea to road safety. It's driver attitudes and capabilities that are the big issues - and those are not (imho) going to be dealt with by the 'speed compliance' approach. Rant over

 

[davidsrsb]

As ever it's going to depend upon the implementation. If I can buy a car that enables me to say "Take me to XYZ postcode" and then crawl into the back and go to sleep, I'm all ears. I'll buy it tomorrow. Monday mornings and Friday evenings will be great..

Which is why I said ten years, we are nowhere near driverless on the open road yet

 

[stevec67]

10 years won't happen even if they approve a totally driverless car tomorrow, the old fleet has to be exhausted. Nobody is buying a 30k driverless car or even taking a lease if they only drive locally and don't have a lot of money.

 

[S-Man]

Yes it was a daft question, but as you see it’s a subject that gets under my skin. Apologies for the tone.

The issue as I see it is that too many of us think that we’re good drivers. When was the last time you heard a driver admit that they were, in fact, pretty poor.

One thing is for sure, incompetence at 30mph causes less destruction than incompetence at 40mph on the same stretch of road.

Speed limits forced upon drivers is indeed a blunt tool, but I welcome it.

Totally agree. I have a (sort of) friend who drives like an absolute idiot. When he was younger he was nearly killed when he overtook on a country lane and had a head-on collision. Seems he's a slow learner!
When we go go karting, I can leave him quite easily, although he has shunted me a few times when I'm braking into the hairpin.
Some of my other pals are effortlessly faster than me. On the road they drive really efficiently and generally within the rules.

Is there an correlation between poor driving skills and extreme over confidence?

 

[Rack Kit]

I was surprised to see comments on the ability of lorry drivers. In my experience most lorry drivers are extremely good at what they do, they have to be. It doesn't follow that they are all courteous, but most are, and they seem to appreciate other road users who treat them with some respect and understnding.

Just like car drivers, cyclists etc there's good & bad ones. The former are the type who acknowledge you for moving into the next overtaking lane when you see they're about to do the same to pass a slower lorry, or not pulling right up to the stop line at a junction they're about to turn right into to give them more space. The bad ones are those that are glued to your bumper in the 50mph sections of the M6 even though you're doing an indicated 50mph (which is more likely to be anything from 45-49 depending on the vehicle).

 

[Andrew C!]

Also, the factor of overt and covert enforcement of traffic law is at play.

Much less humans policing roads today than 20 years ago.

 

[Rack Kit]

Much less humans policing roads today than 20 years ago.

And it’s no coincidence that driving standards have got worse in the same time. Some think they can get away with almost anything and most of the time they do. Some of the things I’ve witnessed beggar belief.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

I work on a British army airfield. From what I can gather, every vehicle they use has a monitor fitted that records all speed, acceleration, braking and steering data. This data is always checked after a vehicle is returned, and anyone found to be breaking speed limits or driving aggressively has some explaining to do.

I’ve noticed a very different attitude amongst the twenty something squaddies though. Compared to my yooff in the 80s, very few of them are interested in driving fast. I don’t think many will have a problem with the proposed changes.

If I need a fix of speed, I’ll either book myself onto a track experience, or hurl myself down a hill on a bicycle. Might be fun overtaking speed limited cars!

 

[S-Man]

As usual, a lot of the problem lies with the media. Just look at the example set by Top Gear and my hybrid car gets terrible reviews in the motoring press. I agree it's terrible at autobahn speeds and not the best on country roads, but it's just so nice in traffic... which is 95% of most people's driving.
Since I have slowed down, the roads seem much less busy and I'm much less stressed. Journey times seem unaffected.
I wouldn't want to go back to turbo diesel now, all that torque along with poor transient response just makes for a frustrating drive.

Thankfully, as ohers have said, young people generally have reducing interest in cars. It's just transport to them.

 

[TheDecameron]

As usual, a lot of the problem lies with the media. Just look at the example set by Top Gear and my hybrid car gets terrible reviews in the motoring press. I agree it's terrible at autobahn speeds and not the best on country roads, but it's just so nice in traffic... which is 95% of most people's driving.
Since I have slowed down, the roads seem much less busy and I'm much less stressed. Journey times seem unaffected.
I wouldn't want to go back to turbo diesel now, all that torque along with poor transient response just makes for a frustrating drive.

Thankfully, as ohers have said, young people generally have reducing interest in cars. It's just transport to them.

What hybrid did you get?

 

[stevec67]

I wouldn't want to go back to turbo diesel now, all that torque along with poor transient response just makes for a frustrating drive.

I like my diseasel but only because I spend a lot of time on the motorway and otherwise I'm in town. Diesel is great there. Where it is awful is on a winding A road. You get it into top on a straight bit, great, then you slow down for a corner and when you exit you either have to change down or listen to the thing labouring like an old tractor. I really don't want to have to row a family car down the road with the gearstick, it's a chore. In a sports car or a bike, fine, but not a standard saloon. I suspect diesels suit autos for this reason, get the engine at the right speed and just shift gears.

 

[Rockmeister]

OK, I’ll back up and apologise for my tone.

However your statement “My risk and my accepted punishment.” is just mad. We can’t allow folk to make decisions of this magnitude. That’s where a little government (call it nanny if you must) intervention is highly warranted.

P.S. you rather missed my point. The government imposes rules on us such that murder is not a decision we can take into our own hands without consequence.

I agree in many ways whale. Driving is anyway getting a tad crazy with motorway speeds creeping up, congestion rising fast and a lot of other circumstances (uncaring overseas truck drivers/mobile phone usage etc) contributing to the danger.
In context, I recall the HUGE fuss made by the 'freedom' brigade over the first ever street cam...newspapers screamed banner headlines, police states were us and etc. Now however it is simply too far the other way. Brussels is famous for over interference IMO and this is another unwelcome intrusion.
Maybe, in retrospect, this IS the unbrave new world we desrve and I'm old so maybe the time has come to just shut up and grow more vegetables

 

[Tony Lockhart]

I like my diseasel but only because I spend a lot of time on the motorway and otherwise I'm in town. Diesel is great there. Where it is awful is on a winding A road. You get it into top on a straight bit, great, then you slow down for a corner and when you exit you either have to change down or listen to the thing labouring like an old tractor. I really don't want to have to row a family car down the road with the gearstick, it's a chore. In a sports car or a bike, fine, but not a standard saloon. I suspect diesels suit autos for this reason, get the engine at the right speed and just shift gears.

You need a twin-turbo diesel

 

[sean99]

I’ve read a couple of articles that say self driving vehicles for the masses aren’t going to be around for about 20 years. There are a lot of issues, and more keep arising, as we should expect. Unknown unknowns?

I think it will be a very gradual process to where you almost don't notice it happening. Lane departure warnings, intelligent cruise control, street sign recognition, auto braking and self parking are the start, and they will get better and better until they gradually blend into one.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

And yet they can’t even get voice recognition to work.

I really can’t imagine what a miserable experience some cars are going to be. But hey, insurance should be a few tenners per year! Yeah, right.

 

[S-Man]

What hybrid did you get?

RAV2.
It is badged RAV4, but it's only 2 wheel drive.