So that's the climate f****d then

[ff1d1l]

Fatalities?

I guess you have friends, family and acquaintances who've died from cancer.
Here in North Wales there was heavy rainfall when the Chernobyl plume passed over.
High ground and upland pasture got very "hot".
Sheep were tested to monitor absorption. Sales of meat were stopped. But monitoring testing went on for decades regardless of what they told you, I know farmers here. And the meat was still hot, sometimes, even years later.
While you can't definitively attribute any one case to this, just in the same way as when someone dies of mesothelioma it's likely unwitting exposure to asbestos is causual, but they don't know when, it is the feeling here in North Wales that we pay a heavy price for the beautiful surroundings we live in. A lot of people here seem to die of cancer....
A friend of Mrs ff1d1l just diagnosed....she was out in that rain...
So, no, no instant, countable casualties.
But who knows how many since.
Nuclear casualties are a PR dream for the nuclear industry.
Nothing directly attributable.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-36112372

 

[russel]

Fatalities?

I guess you have decided that down to pure luck that Japan was not cut in two because of wind direction or Tokyo didn't need to be evacuated for the same reason that nuclear power is safe. Neither will the fact that after mining, extraction and decommissioning the energy return on energy in is about the same, EROEI=1, or that despite years of effort no one seems to have opened a nuclear plant on time and within budget.

 

[ff1d1l]

Took me a while to find this, the renewable lobby is plastering the web with their propaganda... I was really surprised to see so much of it, must be the good use of their recent subsidies.

There is also a lot scaremongering of nuclear out there, unfortunately I couldn't find anything to support my argument, looks like a thousand or so people may have died in nuclear accidents...which I guess means it needs to be shelved in favour of climate change...so be it.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...at-looks-house-cat-crossed-with-a-teddy-bear/

Took you since 2013?
Got anything current?

 

[timola]

I guess we could terraform Mars or Venus into planets habitable for life but if we have the will and technology why not try Earth first for shits and giggles.

Joe

All the eggs in one basket...I'll go with that plan.

Maybe you need to think more boldly: we could come back and fix Earth later...maybe bring Vger to help.

(This has been a difficult post for me...I was trying to enforce my own rule of not antagonising a moderator, I mean no harm.)

 

[timola]

Took you since 2013?
Got anything current?

I did spend a good 10 minutes looking (which is a long time for me). But couldn't find anything to support my argument at all actually. That 2013 article was a side-track.

In the light of my 10 minute research I now think that since 2013 (probably earlier) the renewable industry has really taken a hold of the agenda/argument and just won't let Nuclear be mentioned at all (it's just not PC anymore) because they have immense vested interests now.

I guess, comparatively there is a low bar starting a renewable company (solar+battery and wind+battery in particular) and the market/government subsidy is huge, the carbon and pollution (production/maintenance/disposal/recycling) that goes along with it is not questioned by most users and nobody will ever have enough and the demand will just go exponential.

I actually like the look of solar panels and wind turbines in fields/rooftops and out at sea, it's exciting to see them. The numbers we are going to need along with environmentally friendly batteries will be easily produced/mined and warehousing fully manageable and have no impact on the little wild life we have left.

Maybe in the post climate change world they'll rediscover that Nuclear was a good idea.

PS: I think half of us will die from cancer naturally, but if you're really worried about radiation leaks, this may add to your fears....it's natural by the way.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...silent-killer-in-the-countryside-2047987.html

 

[timola]

if/when we all bugger off to mars, I wonder what the fuel of choice will be? Do we EVER learn?

Methane....life there is waiting for our cars.
Mars could be a fracking bonanza. No pesky locals either if Ray Bradbury was wrong.

 

[timola]

1. "New Fission reactors are extremely safe (and some designs can actually 'burn' the stored up old waste too), "

Pity no one has built a commercial one yet.

2." I'm guessing they are actually more safe than Renewables (there is probably an article somewhere showing this). "

It will be with the Harry Potter books if it exists.


3."Renewables is just tinkering at the margins and if this is the course we're on then we need to spend vast amounts on mitigating the effects of climate change for the most vulnerable such as GM crops and flood defenses."

Solar is on grid parity with coal in many areas.

4.Fusion is a Weslake project.

I suspect you mean "Westlake" and know sweet FA about fusion.

Apart from that it was a very good comment Tim.

https://m.timesofindia.com/city/che...power-production/amp_articleshow/63480884.cms

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_IV_reactor

Sorry only had 5 minutes to research. If I get a chance I'll have a go at no.2 again... No success so far, there must be a renewables mafia out there.

 

[Arkless Electronics]

We are completely doomed as long as capitalism and consumerism reign... so we're doomed cos it would be political and economic suicide to do anything meaningful about the situation.

It would take eg all private vehicles banned and one electric minibus per estate to do all transport by rota, all others to take up push bike etc... and maybe one TV viewing room with big screen per street to avoid 100 TV's per street using elektrickery, all "selfish" "non essential" use of jumbo jets for holidays etc to be banned, coal.gas and nuclear power to stop no matter how it effects vested interests and shareholders etc, etc to make much difference... and it ain't going to happen....

Even if the UK or all Europe were to go this far, which will never happen, if China, India, the USA carry on the same our sacrifice would be pretty much worthless... Australia just approved new coal power stations today!

 

[limono]

in the meantime , the warming is just a theory same with Darvin ... just a THEORY . Relax , in the medieval ages wine was healthier than water .We are absolutely not doomed since 2/3 of worlds population live on close to nothing.
Maybe instead of being electrician change a profession? Like a ditch digger or gardener ? To preserve the resources but let me tell you its not fun ...you may turn into redneck and populist ...

 

[Joe P]

limono,

Global warming is not a theory. It’s empirical fact.

Joe

 

[Joe P]

Tim,

All the eggs in one basket...I'll go with that plan.

Maybe you need to think more boldly: we could come back and fix Earth later...maybe bring Vger to help.

(This has been a difficult post for me...I was trying to enforce my own rule of not antagonising a moderator, I mean no harm.)

As a mod I’m fine with your posts. I just don’t understand your position. If we have the capability to crudely terraform worlds, why would we abandon the Earth?

Look at it this way — it would be many orders of magnitude easier to remove CO2 from the Earth’s atmosphere than to turn Mars’s atmosphere into something that could support life.

And it’s a shitload easier to reforest the Earth than to grow algae on Mars or Venus.

Joe

 

[notaclue]

 

[dweezil]

There are potential problems retaining atmosphere on Mars, it only has a good third of Earth gravity.

We also couldn't cope with radiation levels, Earth has a magnetosphere which diverts radiation.

I used to think nuclear power was clean but then went to a Uranium mine. There was a plume of dust
visible from miles away, as we got closer we saw a busy rail track shipping in tankers full of conc. H2SO4.

Jobs were limited to ten years to keep exposure vaguely acceptable.

Next generation nuclear will at least produce less waste and recover the 96% of fuel energy sent to waste
repositories but it's only clean when compared to something like coal.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I think next generation nuclear is necessary, partly to keep the lights on, but mostly as it offers a way to use up the ‘spent’ fuel from previous generations. New nuclear should not be permitted using existing technologies, but should be encouraged if it can chew through the vast reserves of spent fuel.

Also, Thorium could be made viable as a fission fuel.

 

[Marky-Mark]

I gotta be honest .. spend too much time on the internet and this climate change thing starts to feel like a glorious schadenfreude.

 

[dweezil]

Looking at the vast amounts of suffering to be imposed on rich and poor over this century I can't see much room for happiness.

Maybe if Donald's on the course when Mar a Lago gets washed away?

 

[timola]

I gotta be honest .. spend too much time on the internet and this climate change thing starts to feel like a glorious schadenfreude.

I have some sympathy with you. But having read a few books and particularly Jim hanson's:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1408807467/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21

The case is well put in the above book. Most of the alarmist predictions have not come to pass and all of the benefit's ignored out of hand, it's a religious belief amongst some along the lines of 'the end of the world is nigh'. I see it more pragmatically; we need to move onto the next phase of civilization and technology over the next 200 years or so, then everything will be correctable. Consciousness has developed in this corner of the universe for the first and possibly only time (just my conjecture), without it nothing can experience it's wonders, it must move out to other worlds.

Pessimism will get us nowhere.

 

[davidsrsb]

Cleaner nuclear power stations does not solve the mess made by all of the nuclear submarines

 

[Joe P]

Doing nothing will get us somewhere — a shitty place with much suffering and irreversible ecological destruction.

Joe

 

[Marky-Mark]

The first thing I think of when Trump speaks on Climate Change while his supporters lap it up is how the same group pumped out Baghdad Bob memes at a furious pace for laughs.