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Silliest French word I learnt so far

richardg said:
I don't think it ever came up at o level or a level. And I have not noticed it since moving to France. Obvs I will look out for it. Obvs not going to learn it!
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Yes it did. It was a central plank of my French O level in 1983. Present, passé composé, imparfait, pluperfect, future, conditional were essential. Subjunctive was taught but only in a basic sense. PS was nodded at, then ignored.
 
mandryka said:
There's a great scene in Entre les Murs == a film about a lycée serving a working class estate. The French language teacher wants to teach the imperfect subjunctive and he uses the example

Il fallait que je fusse en forme

And one of the girls in the class shouted out

Si je parlais comme ça à la maison ma mère me mettrait à la porte!

(Someone's now going to tell me that I've got the concordance of tenses wrong, I know it.)
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good edit. Complicated, isn't it?
 
stevec67 said:
Yes it did. It was a central plank of my French O level in 1983. Present, passé composé, imparfait, pluperfect, future, conditional were essential. Subjunctive was taught but only in a basic sense. PS was nodded at, then ignored.
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I mean passe simple
 
You know, since I started living here and speaking only French, I've forgotten all those rules our teachers taught us which effectively meant many of us could write French, but would never be able to speak it. I mean, English has a form of grammaire, but I've yet to hear that discussed in any English pub.
 
The only thing I can remember about my French O level is, ironically, that I couldn't remember the French for 'gloves'. The unseen translation paper was about a bloke going out for a walk on a rainy day, who, taking no chances, wore his coat, his hat, his gloves, and took an umbrella. I got all the other items, but was reduced to writing 'son gloves'. As soon as I left the exam room I remembered the correct word. (I passed the exam anyway, you'll be pleased to hear).
 
avole said:
You know, since I started living here and speaking only French, I've forgotten all those rules our teachers taught us which effectively meant many of us could write French, but would never be able to speak it. I mean, English has a form of grammaire, but I've yet to hear that discussed in any English pub.
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Yes and I certainly can imagine that looking at written French can get in the way of fluency because you will lose confidence -- the gap between the spelling and the sound is so huge.

But I think it's good to be aware of the grammar, otherwise you're going to hear things and wonder why it's constructed like that.
 
Why would you lose confidence? The gap between spelling and sound isn't huge if you happen to be French, and, unlike much in English, is far more consistent. Look at "the", "thee" and "the" (short e).
 
avole said:
You know, since I started living here and speaking only French, I've forgotten all those rules our teachers taught us which effectively meant many of us could write French, but would never be able to speak it. I mean, English has a form of grammaire, but I've yet to hear that discussed in any English pub.
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When you’re a native speaker of a language you know (most of) the rules instinctively without being taught them. That doesn’t mean everyone speaks the language perfectly of course.
 
avole said:
Why would you lose confidence? The gap between spelling and sound isn't huge if you happen to be French, and, unlike much in English, is far more consistent. Look at "the", "thee" and "the" (short e).
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It's the spelling which unnerved me more than the grammar in fact -- all the letters in the spelling which aren't said. I remember seeing things like aiment and even est and thinking, what's going on?!

I also think that as a beginner it's important to have the confidence to express yourself even if you do so badly -- if you convince yourself that you need to worry about the things that English speakers find so hard- things like le and la, or de and à, or est and soit - then you'll end up calculating the grammar before you speak and, by the time you're ready, the moment to speak is gone.

But I do think it's important to be aware of the grammar, to know the reason why you hear the word for green differently when it's applied to pelouse and gazon, for example.
 
mandryka said:
I also think that as a beginner it's important to have the confidence to express yourself even if you do so badly -- if you convince yourself that you need to worry about the things that English speakers find so hard- things like le and la, or de and à, or est and soit - then you'll end up calculating the grammar before you speak and, by the time you're ready, the moment to speak is gone.
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I agree - that’s really the point I was trying to make here.
 
avole said:
Why would you lose confidence? The gap between spelling and sound isn't huge if you happen to be French, and, unlike much in English, is far more consistent. Look at "the", "thee" and "the" (short e).
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For me the point is that you can only absorb so much info and only spend so much time a week learning a language. Learning grammar as a priority is bollocks. And if you start young enough, you don't need it explaining. It just happens.

It would be nice to see the UK education system introduce a foreign language at 4. Not bloody 11, as it was when I was a kid. Way too late.
 
avole said:
The gap between spelling and sound isn't huge if you happen to be French, and, unlike much in English, is far more consistent.
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Agreed. There must be more inconsistencies of pron. in English than in any other language using the Roman alphabet (ough, e.g.)

Stunsworth said:
When you’re a native speaker of a language you know (most of) the rules instinctively without being taught them./QUOTE]

I totally disagree; the vast majority of native speakers of English don't have a clue about grammatical structure, tenses etc. This is largely because they were never taught in that way at school. I can only remember tenses being taught in French, not English, in my fifties grammar schooling. Nor have I come across this structural teaching in the dozens of secondary and junior schools I have taught in since '74

Joe Hutch said:
The only thing I can remember about my French O level
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That reminds me that French must be the 'missing' O level that I got in '58, as I could only remember 5 of them. Can't think what other subject it could be.
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richardg said:
Learning grammar as a priority is bollocks. And if you start young enough, you don't need it explaining. It just happens.
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Okay if you're never intending to write it, Richard. You do surprise me with your arcane views on teaching English considering you are/were an EFL teacher. Conversational language teaching will only get you so far, and will never get you through an exam. Learning a language must involve all the skills and disparate aspects of reading, writing , speaking and understanding.
 
Mike Reed said:
Okay if you're never intending to write it, Richard. You do surprise me with your arcane views on teaching English considering you are/were an EFL teacher. Conversational language teaching will only get you so far, and will never get you through an exam. Learning a language must involve all the skills and disparate aspects of reading, writing , speaking and understanding.
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It's a reaction against what was. And to many still is. I got an A at GCE O level, O&C Board. I couldn't hold a conversation in French at all after it. Why not?

Completely useless.
 
A good one on the France 2 news last night that I'd never heard before: pergélisol = permafrost.
The newsreader had to translate it (i.e. say "permafrost"!) to make it clear.
I wonder if it's the Académie or just language sensitive scientists.
 
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