Stunsworth
pfm Member
I think that’s why the quote says ‘may’. I may have just arrived, but then again I may not have.
Silliest French word I learnt so far
- Thread starter richardg
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I think that’s why the quote says ‘may’. I may have just arrived, but then again I may not have.
richardg
Admonishtrator
Jeez never even aware of it then.
mandryka
pfm Member
Passé simple is a problem for me because I never went to school in France, I've never learned to write with it. When Churtz just wrote je m'abonnai I just didn't recognise the ending. In practice it's not a problem because context makes it clear when you're reading.
Similarly for the imperfect and pluperfect subjunctive, which comes up all the time if you read pre war books, or even some modern authors (like Pierre Michon, Pierre Bergounioux.) I love it, partly because I have to double-take when I see it, partly because it's full of circumflex accents, which are so pretty.
And then there are totally bizarre things, like dussé-je. WTF is that about?
Similarly for the imperfect and pluperfect subjunctive, which comes up all the time if you read pre war books, or even some modern authors (like Pierre Michon, Pierre Bergounioux.) I love it, partly because I have to double-take when I see it, partly because it's full of circumflex accents, which are so pretty.
And then there are totally bizarre things, like dussé-je. WTF is that about?
This sentence means I arrived in 1967, first and foremost. Indeed on its own it can only mean this. It could mean "I did arrive in 1967" but this would only arise in the context of a confirmation or contradiction of a previous statement such as "you didn't arrive in 1967, it was '66" or " am i right in thinking that you arrived in 1967? "
I've spent many years in France and never heard anyone speak PS. Maybe there are occasional outliers, like the occasional use of "thou" in English , but I think these are the exceptions that don't negate the rule.
richardg
Admonishtrator
No chance of spotting one of those.
Don't knock yourself, I reckon you are doing OK. It's about communication, once you get there you are done. After that it's refinements, and when you get really expert you will know your own limitations and know how to avoid displaying them. In my case this means avoiding saying (eg) "il a fallu que" because this triggers the past perfect subjunctive, which I don't know and I'm fked if I can be bothered learning it, and instead I say "j'ai du..." or if strictly necessary I'll use " c'etait necessaire que.... "
Native French speakers often use the normal present subjunctive instead of past perfect or imperfect subjunctive, even when they know better, simply because they can't be not or they don't want to appear pompous. We do similar in English.
richardg
Admonishtrator
mandryka
pfm Member
There's a great scene in Entre les Murs == a film about a lycée serving a working class estate. The French language teacher wants to teach the imperfect subjunctive and he uses the example
Il fallait que je fusse en forme
And one of the girls in the class shouted out
Si je parlais comme ça à la maison ma mère me mettrait à la porte!
(Someone's now going to tell me that I've got the concordance of tenses wrong, I know it.)
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chartz
If it’s broke fix it!
Agree with Manfdryka.
Correct. Si, je suis bien arrivé en 67=I did arrive in 67. I just love the elegant way English does things.
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
It's easy, the clue is in the name.
Passé composé is a composite: auxiliary verb (avoir or être) conjugated in the present tense + past participle of the verb. I saw = J'ai vu. The most common form of past tense in the spoken language, as it's so easy to put together.
Passé simple: the verb conjugated, no auxiliary or anything else. Je vis, tu vis, il vit, nous vîmes... sounds very pompous, especially in the plural, so never used in spoken French. Many native French speakers struggle with it. One of the reasons French novels sound stilted to me.
Both imply the action happened only once and is now over. Imparfait (je voyais, tu voyais...) is widely used and implies the action continued for a while, or even that it is still going on.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
I only have schoolboy French, and that was a very long time ago. How do these tense terms above compare with the English tense structure, if indeed they do?
In English we have present simple and continuous (used also for the future), the future tense (simple and cont.) and future perfect (s & cont.). Beforehand, we have present perfect (x2), past (x2) and past perfect. 12 active tenses. passe simple is obvious but is there are passe continue? What is pluperfect comparable to?
Examples using 'drive': starting from present, IDRIVE/I AM DRIVING: future is I WILL DRIVE/I WILL BE DRIVING and future perfect is I WILL HAVE DRIVEN/I WILL HAVE BEEN DRIVING. Present perfect is I HAVE DRIVEN/I HAVE BEEN DRIVING; past is I DROVE/I WAS DRIVING and past perfect is IHAD DRIVEN/I HAD BEEN DRIVING (often used for reported speech)'
What are the French equivalents, assuming there are such, though they're probably not used in the same way.
richardg
Admonishtrator
What has thrown me is that, if I recall correctly, we use the term simple past for phrases with tenses such as 'I visited my mum yesterday.' And I translate that to 'hier, j'ai visite ma mere'.....thinking that the French called it the simple past also. But it seems they do not.
Stunsworth
pfm Member
Passé composé is the basic past tense that would be taught in year one. I find it difficult to believe you’ve not heard it.
richardg
Admonishtrator
Not that. The passe simple
Pas mal. Tu vas te débrouiller pas mal.