Sick of manual gearboxes? Maybe good news is coming

[gez]

I wonder to what extent it is true that "almost everyone wants an automatic," and to what extent it is the car makers deciding what they want people to buy. The other day I stopped at my local BMW dealer and asked what models, engines and transmissions were available.
The answer was that if you want 6 cylinders it HAS to be a 400 HP turbo brute. But if you choose that, it HAS to have an automatic gearbox AND 4-wheel drive. No choice whatsoever. If you want RWD, it HAS to be a 4 cylinder model (330). Manual gearboxes are not available, unless you buy an M3, and that is about 500HP and costs the earth.
In addition, the power steering has become all-electric, which according to all accounts simply does not have the "feel" of the hydraulic power steering.
So I'm keeping my 1999 528i, and will throw as much money at it as it needs to be kept in top condition. As long as spares are available.

It's definitely people not the manufacturers leading the change. It's only relatively recently (5-8 years or so) that manufacturers have started to provide auto only options. For a long time before that nearly all models had both options available with the automatic usually being a cost option. Over time, more and more people were buying the auto's, even in "proper" sports cars, till eventually the manufacturers took the lead and started dropping manuals as options.

I can't recall the exact figures but from around 2013 on by far the majority of Caymans sold were PDK, you can see that reflected on the s/h market, where manuals are barely more than 20% of all the cars available for sale. The 981 Cayman had both options available when new.

 

[Monitor Gold 10]

Who will miss the manual car when it’s gone? Only the very smuggest drivers | Zoe Williams

We’re falling out of love with manual cars, says the DVLA. What will driving ‘enthusiasts’ have left to feel superior about now? asks Guardian columnist Zoe Williams

www.google.com

Anyone ever read such drivel as this about cars?

The author of that piece needs to drive a Wilson Pre-Select vehicle. I've driven three like this and it's brilliant. And technically an Automatic Transmission...

 

[James]

For those of us not in Germany, a lot of the engine/gearbox range is unusable due to speed limits off a racetrack. Cars are getting ridiculously fast.

Not sure what you mean. I can use all of the gears without breaking the speed limit. I have no need or wish to drive at its max speed, but it is comforting to know that my car has plenty of reserve to get me halfway there very quickly.

 

[James]

On the first part, yes. but I wonder if criticism of CVT automatics depends on details. I have only had one - an Audi A6 with a V6 2.5L diesel engine and a multitronic gearbox. It was the 6-ratio version and used a chain rather than a belt. I ran the car for 175,000 miles and had the ATF changed on schedule. There were rumours of unreliability, and during the warranty period I did indeed get the "flashing PRNDS" problem which Audi fixed. Otherwise it worked perfectly. I thought that this CVT gearbox was good.

I thought that the CVT in the current Subaru WRX does a passible impression of an 8-speed ZFAT when set to manual mode.

 

[PaulMB]

It's definitely people not the manufacturers leading the change. It's only relatively recently (5-8 years or so) that manufacturers have started to provide auto only options. For a long time before that nearly all models had both options available with the automatic usually being a cost option. Over time, more and more people were buying the auto's, even in "proper" sports cars, till eventually the manufacturers took the lead and started dropping manuals as options.

I can't recall the exact figures but from around 2013 on by far the majority of Caymans sold were PDK, you can see that reflected on the s/h market, where manuals are barely more than 20% of all the cars available for sale. The 981 Cayman had both options available when new.

"Provide auto only options," which is hardly an option. Before there was the option, now there is no option. And I've noticed that many cars, including my 528i, are more expensive SH with manual than with automatic. Another example, not regarding gearboxes, is that early '90s Porsches with only RWD are more expensive than those with 4WD.
There was, also, a geographical difference. In Europe, which is hardly a niche market, manual gearboxes were/are more popular than elsewhere. But I have a feeling that the car makers wanted to save money by giving everyone the same product, willy nilly.

 

[tiggers]

Twisty, fun, empty road = manual

Anything else (i.e. most of real life, in the UK at least) = auto

 

[artoly]

I saved NZD4K specifying 6MT over 8AT when I ordered my BMW. But that was in 2013.

I should have noted that my comments about manual pricing premium related to the used market (which is hugely affected by the used Japanese import market in NZ). In Auckland more than 10 autos per 1 manual for sale (on Trademe), so it becomes a supply-and-demand thing (especially in the learner car market from what I'm told).

 

[James]

I should have noted that my comments about manual pricing premium related to the used market (which is hugely affected by the used Japanese import market in NZ). In Auckland more than 10 autos per 1 manual for sale (on Trademe), so it becomes a supply-and-demand thing (especially in the learner car market from what I'm told).

I think the proportion is even smaller. Many of the 'manual' cars listed on TM are dual-clutch autos. Like these two ...

Trade Me

www.trademe.co.nz

Trade Me

www.trademe.co.nz

 

[RJohan]

For those of us not in Germany, a lot of the engine/gearbox range is unusable due to speed limits off a racetrack. Cars are getting ridiculously fast.

Yes. I was recently in a modern, six speed car as a passenger. The driver had continously to change from six to five or six to four or even down to third gear to get along at a speed limit of 50 mph. Silly.

 

[RJohan]

OH's VW Beetle - not an "extreme sport car" - has a six-speed manual, and our Vauxhall Insignia 2.0 has a 6-speed semi-auto ...

Well, the only car I've had (out of 26) that had such a peaky engine it actually might have needed six speeds was a Honda Accord type R. And it had only five. In a way it was an extreme sports car in everyday family car drag.

 

[RJohan]

This, I really don't get the anti paddle sentiment some people have. IMHO manuals should have always used something along the lines of paddle rather than the tractor like agrocultural solution of foot operated clutch combined with hand lever for changing the gear. Just think about it logically, nobody in their right mind would come up with such a solution if they didn't need to, so why it took so damn long to get rid of it is mind boggling to me.

Long time ago, the 1960 I think, there was Saxomat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxomat) manual without driver operated clutch. Some of the cars used stalk mounted gear change. Pretty much what you wanted, I guess. It died away as it wasn't used in racing cars and therefore not 'sporty'.

I, on the other hand, doesn't get PDK/DSG or what ever it's called. What's the idea with a complicated conversion of 'the tractor like solution' (to use your words) from the 19'th century when there is a simple planetary gear one already implemented? Oh, yeah, I get it. It is used in racing cars and therefore 'sporty'

Totally agree with your words about how its done on motorcycles. And, why on earth, does cars use H-pattern when there is sequential gear change as implemented on motorcycles?

 

[davidsrsb]

Totally agree with your words about how its done on motorcycles. And, why on earth, does cars use H-pattern when there is sequential gear change as implemented on motorcycles?

H pattern made sense in 3+R days, started to look silly with 5+R and with 6+ the chances of getting the wrong gear are getting high.
Strangely steering wheel paddles are sequential and nobody complains

 

[awkwardbydesign]

Yes. I was recently in a modern, six speed car as a passenger. The driver had continously to change from six to five or six to four or even down to third gear to get along at a speed limit of 50 mph. Silly.

Modern cars, eh? My 2010 Cube has 5, and 4th works fine from 30 to 70, and 5th from 40 upwards. On the flat, of course.

 

[Suffolk Tony]

I, on the other hand, doesn't get PDK/DSG or what ever it's called. What's the idea with a complicated conversion of 'the tractor like solution' (to use your words) from the 19'th century when there is a simple planetary gear one already implemented? Oh, yeah, I get it. It is used in racing cars and therefore 'sporty'

I've had four Porsches of various kinds, all with the PDK gearbox, and it really is a wonderful thing. It's also, by all accounts, pretty bulletproof.

 

[gintonic]

I've had four Porsches of various kinds, all with the PDK gearbox, and it really is a wonderful thing. It's also, by all accounts, pretty bulletproof.

i am on my 5th all with PDK and it is a very clever thing. i had the one on my 981S fail on me - almost from new.

 

[Cav]

Totally agree with your words about how its done on motorcycles. And, why on earth, does cars use H-pattern when there is sequential gear change as implemented on motorcycles?

Sequential on a bike is pretty much determined by a bikes architecture and how it has to be driven. You change gear without having to take your hands off the handlebars. Some old bikes had suicide shifters which operated like a car and required at least one hand to be removed from the bars with obvious implications for safety,

With most cars you don't need to access every gear going up or down the box - I often go from 3 to 5 or 4 to 2 and so on.

 

[cosimoss]

I've had four Porsches of various kinds, all with the PDK gearbox, and it really is a wonderful thing. It's also, by all accounts, pretty bulletproof.

The 7/8 speed auto gearboxes on BMW M cars are also quite something.

 

[stevec67]

Sequential on a bike is pretty much determined by a bikes architecture and how it has to be driven. You change gear without having to take your hands off the handlebars. Some old bikes had suicide shifters which operated like a car and required at least one hand to be removed from the bars with obvious implications for safety,

With most cars you don't need to access every gear going up or down the box - I often go from 3 to 5 or 4 to 2 and so on.

If you read the historic accounts of pre war motorcycles with the foot clutch and hand selection of gears, the "suicide shifters" epithet is accurate. Even with the modest speeds of most motorcycles of the time it was recognised as dangerous and when someone came up with the hand clutch and sequential foot change it was adopted universally and more or less immediately. I'm not sure who it was that invented it but Sturmey-Archer 3 speed gearboxes (yes, a different take on a SA 3 speed!) were fairly universal in British 30's motorcycles. I know that these days they are still around in reasonable numbers, there are specialists who can rebuild them, and if you have a 30's bike you're unlikely to be stuck if it doesn't have a working gearbox because they were so universal and readily repaired.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Yes. I was recently in a modern, six speed car as a passenger. The driver had continously to change from six to five or six to four or even down to third gear to get along at a speed limit of 50 mph. Silly.

It strikes me that the silly thing here is the driver attempting to use 6th at 50mph in the first place. Assuming the car is like most modern cars, 6th will be a lazy motorway cruising gear, and 5th is effectively 'top' for all other road conditions.

 

[stevec67]

Yes. I was recently in a modern, six speed car as a passenger. The driver had continously to change from six to five or six to four or even down to third gear to get along at a speed limit of 50 mph. Silly.

It strikes me that the silly thing here is the driver attempting to use 6th at 50mph in the first place. Assuming the car is like most modern cars, 6th will be a lazy motorway cruising gear, and 5th is effectively 'top' for all other road conditions.

I agree, it's just poor driving. My car only just works at 50mph in 6th gear, so in a 50 limit near home I use 5th. 5th works from 35 to about 100 and will cope with gentle hills at that speed. Select 4th at 50 only if you want to overtake, at which point it will really go. Car drivers seem to be obsessed with changing up, less so motorcyclists who seem to understand that each gear has a speed range and if you are trundling around in town then 3rd is pretty much all you need unless you have to stop. Not so car drivers who always want to be in top. My father is a classic case in point, he grew up driving worn out post war cars where they went bang if they exceeded 3000 rpm so he changes up at 2000. Cue no discernible power and when he slows down for a corner the thing starts coughing. Fortunately he now has an automatic with a diesel engine, so it sorts it out for him and the poor engine is never asked to labour in a gear. 2000 rpm, modest acceleration? Sure. Want more? Push the pedal, it shifts down without you noticing, dials in 3000 rpm to release a bit more power, and off you go. Incidentally the modern hybrids have this fixed too, I've been on holiday with them when he has driven a hybrid manual. Up a steep hill in Italy the hybrid dials in electrical assistance and keeps the thing rolling uphill even at engine speeds below 1500 rpm that would have a normal petrol car spluttering and coughing. The difference is dramatic, and the transition in and out of electrical assistance seamless.