Sick of manual gearboxes? Maybe good news is coming

[artoly]

Bit of a myth actually...

Yes, you are probably right. I just relooked at the published numbers and my current 3.2L NA engine is thirsty, so probably nothing to do with natural aspiration in my case. My efficiency with the smaller turbo is probably because it is mostly used for the daily grind, where it doesn't often have to work hard.

My previous Ford 4L NA straight 6 was more efficient.
Other models using the same 4L engine were more thirsty, with the biggest difference being the transmission (getting me halfway back on topic). I'm guessing an extra gear or two can make a big difference to efficiency.

 

[Beobloke]

Like the screaming turbos on a Paxman Valenta?

Absolutely!

 

[S-Man]

Has anyone anything good to say on the Lexus Autos. I've been driving a lovely old BMW 530d Tourer Auto for the last 22 years with no issues whatsoever but getting a bit nervous about rubber hose degradation etc and wondering what might replace it.
Wife has a 2017 Tiguan 4x4 with Dual Clutch Auto thing which I must confess is quite impressive but is much jerkier at low speed stuff

Budget lent us a non hybrid small Lexus in the States recently which I think had a CVT I wasn't that impressed Slow to take off etc
Looked at the drive train in the full hybrid Lexus's on you tube and that did my head in with its complexity. very impressive though and I guess the lower down Toyotas use pretty much the same tech. I had an Auto Toyota Camry in Riyadh for a year or two and thought it a great little car until I got car jacked !!

Eddie

I only have experience with Toyota’s hybrid engines. In general, the lower spec ones are nicer to drive. Seven years ago I got a new RAV4 2WD, it’s been superb to drive, wonderful drivetrain. My (well off) buddy, got the Lexus equivalent, top model with 4WD. it cost 60% more and was not very nice to drive - heavier and more sluggish, lots of revs and not much action!

I’ve just replaced the RAV4 with a new one. Tested the base model with two wheel drive and the top spec PHEV GR model. Once again, the basic one is nicer to drive. The extra 80 horses of the GR was not really noticeable.

 

[James]

I’ve just replaced the RAV4 with a new one. Tested the base model with two wheel drive and the top spec PHEV GR model. Once again, the basic one is nicer to drive. The extra 80 horses of the GR was not really noticeable.

Is the PHEV GR AWD? If so, the drivetrain losses would sap up the extra horses, as would hauling the extra weight.

 

[S-Man]

Is the PHEV GR AWD? If so, the drivetrain losses would sap up the extra horses, as would hauling the extra weight.

Yes. I'm sure the GR is faster, especially in slippery conditions, but I prefer the lighter and smoother feel of the 2WD.

 

[Ginger]

My experience of the small turbopetrol engines is that in the real world they are not that efficient, they certainly weren't in 2016-18 when I was hiring a lot of cars for work. I had a couple of regular runs - Aberdeen airport to Elgin, down the A96 (I think) so a pretty steady 50-60 mph trot, then to and from the factory every day, then back on Friday. Typically 40 mpg. Similarly Dublin airport to Tullow, Co Wicklow, similar 50-60 mph A road stuff, then factory and back all week etc. Same figures. That was without trying to drive it like I stole it, it was just a steady run in traffic. Around that time I had a Mondeo 1.8 natasp, no ball of fire but 38-40 mpg average and better to drive than the small turbos. I got to the stage where I was asking for diesels because they were so much better to drive and cheaper on fuel. Typically up towards 50 mpg.

I'm not disagreeing with you for the sake of it, merely offering my limited experience of a small petrol turbo, a 1.4 in an Octavia we owned for 5 years. On the one hand, it's a white-goods car - nothing else. On the other, bloody brilliant. In everyday driving there's rarely a need to go past 3k revs. On a mixture of driving, the bulk of which was B roads, ferrying kids around everywhere, it gave 45/46 mpg overall, without trying. Set it at 80 and expect 50mpg all day long. Again, in reality, if it had a 4k rev limit that would be no hindrance. Sounded like a bag of spanners when you went past those revs, and to little benefit. The low rev torque made it a great all-purpose, easy to drive car. My wife loved it. I'll admit I was very dubious indeed when I went for a test drive, and somewhat dubious about longevity, but it was faultless for 100k miles.

 

[PaulMB]

We hired a VW T-roc recently, 1000cc turbo petrol, manual. The 3-pot engine seemed to do as it liked. If I put my foot down it would respond sooner, or later, apparently on its own whims. Sometimes a sudden surge of power, sometimes nothing for a few seconds and then a shuddering surge as if someone had kicked it to wake up. After 800 km. I still did not get the hang of it. And an indicator on the dash kept telling me to change down, on principle. No "driving pleasure" at all.

 

[Ginger]

We hired a VW T-roc recently, 1000cc turbo petrol, manual. The 3-pot engine seemed to do as it liked. If I put my foot down it would respond sooner, or later, apparently on its own whims. Sometimes a sudden surge of power, sometimes nothing for a few seconds and then a shuddering surge as if someone had kicked it to wake up. After 800 km. I still did not get the hang of it. And an indicator on the dash kept telling me to change down, on principle. No "driving pleasure" at all.

If its telling you to change down, you're labouring the engine

 

[davidsrsb]

I had a 1L 3 cylinder turbo CVT rental Toyota last year and it was a reasonably smooth transmission. The engine got very noisy at times, it was obvious that this was a an engine that needed revs. I do wonder how long an engine like this will last

 

[PaulMB]

If its telling you to change down, you're labouring the engine

Sorry, my mistake. It was always telling me to change UP!

 

[Ginger]

Sorry, my mistake. It was always telling me to change UP!

They're all a bit keen on telling us to change up, aren't they? I ignore them, but some of them are pretty remarkable at how low revving they will pull higher gears. But a 1 litre in a T-Roc? Just doesn't sound enough, does it?

 

[S-Man]

We hired a VW T-roc recently, 1000cc turbo petrol, manual. The 3-pot engine seemed to do as it liked. If I put my foot down it would respond sooner, or later, apparently on its own whims. Sometimes a sudden surge of power, sometimes nothing for a few seconds and then a shuddering surge as if someone had kicked it to wake up. After 800 km. I still did not get the hang of it. And an indicator on the dash kept telling me to change down, on principle. No "driving pleasure" at all.

I had the same experience on holiday with a Troc. Sounded like a diesel as well.

It also had strange handling, minimal body roll up to a point where it suddenly flopped over and went all soggy. I prefer cars that firm up when settled into the corner, this was the opposite- strange!

 

[James]

We hired a VW T-roc recently, 1000cc turbo petrol, manual. The 3-pot engine seemed to do as it liked. If I put my foot down it would respond sooner, or later, apparently on its own whims. Sometimes a sudden surge of power, sometimes nothing for a few seconds and then a shuddering surge as if someone had kicked it to wake up. After 800 km. I still did not get the hang of it. And an indicator on the dash kept telling me to change down, on principle. No "driving pleasure" at all.

Sounds like really bad turbo lag. The last time I experienced it was in a 1995 Subaru Legacy GT. Modern engines should exhibit little to no lag. Mine has none that I can perceive.

 

[PaulMB]

Sounds like really bad turbo lag. The last time I experienced it was in a 1995 Subaru Legacy GT. Modern engines should exhibit little to no lag. Mine has none that I can perceive.

Well yours is a comfortable 3 litres (?) and 6 cylinders, so I would imagine the engine has some good natural "push" in the pre-turbo phase. The horrid T-rock was 1000cc and 3 cylinders, and weighs only a bit less than your 335, so maybe the turbo has to work harder to get some useful power, but will only do that at over certain RPM to keep the "economy" figures down. I dunno....

 

[PaulMB]

I had the same experience on holiday with a Troc. Sounded like a diesel as well.

Yes, sort of rattly with vibrations, like a chain saw at low speed, never a good "purr" or "howl."

It also had strange handling, minimal body roll up to a point where it suddenly flopped over and went all soggy. I prefer cars that firm up when settled into the corner, this was the opposite- strange!

I confess I never really tried the handling, was not encouraged to do so. Difficult if you feel you do not have full control of the engine.

 

[S-Man]

I confess I never really tried the handling, was not encouraged to do so. Difficult if you feel you do not have full control of the engine.

Didn’t need to try at all hard for it to “flop”.

Slightly back on topic. My daughter just got a Mazda 2 (with only 88 BHP) and I had to drive it 80 miles. Delightful little car, sweet 1.5 engine, nice ride and handling and a lovely slick manual gearbox!!

 

[MVV]

I’ve had autos for over 30 years with the main advantage of being able to negotiate roundabouts while drinking coffee and if you have the key you know it won't roll away.
Thinking I was getting on a bit so wouldn’t be driving much got a manual Golf but often fail to apply the handbrake; so it is sometimes found in the middle of the road.

 

[davidsrsb]

Didn’t need to try at all hard for it to “flop”.

Slightly back on topic. My daughter just got a Mazda 2 (with only 88 BHP) and I had to drive it 80 miles. Delightful little car, sweet 1.5 engine, nice ride and handling and a lovely slick manual gearbox!!

Mazdas are still Fords built properly