Sick of manual gearboxes? Maybe good news is coming

[James]

Unlike UK (from what I hear?), it is more difficult to buy manuals down under and they attract a premium over auto equivalents.

I saved NZD4K specifying 6MT over 8AT when I ordered my BMW. But that was in 2013.

However, I think some of the more unicorn manuals will be worth more in the future in the second-hand market, as this is what will appeal to the more hard core enthusiast.

That's what I'm banking on, especially with a classic inline 6 cylinder motor, wagon format and all the M-Sport goodies.

All auto gearboxes have a quasi-manual mode where the driver can select a gear and the box won't change up or down unless the engine rev range exceeds the limits for that gear. It can be very useful when descending long or steep hills, for example, where the normal 'semi-coasting' default mode isn't much help.

Not sure about that. When I test drove a ZF8AT equipped BMW, I distinctly recall it automatically changing down when driving down an incline. What I didn't like about the 8AT is its programming to hold onto a lower gear / higher engine speed when driving in sports mode. With a 6MT, I can enjoy the sharper throttle response with any gear of my choosing. I was happy to sacrifice some fuel economy and 0.2s off its 0-60mph time.

I also believe my choice of 6MT is another reason my brakes have lasted 180,000km and still well within spec, not needing to resist the torque converter when slowing down.

 

[awkwardbydesign]

I've only ever driven torque converters, and I have to say that I've never noticed them not engine braking. They all seem to engine brake. At least for as long as they're in any given gear. They will of course change gear, which a manual won't obviously, which doesn't help with the hill decent scenario you mention..

Until recently I had only driven slush box autos, and none of them had any significant engine braking! But then I rode Moto Guzzis which have a LOT of engine braking. I would put them into a lower gear down hills to have some engine braking, as Plymouth is very hilly. Which I still do with a manual. That seems to confuse following drivers as they see no brake lights.
Another thing with autos has been the lag before accelerating; you would need to press the pedal before you reached a bend to get any drive in the bend. Not a happy state of affairs.
And no I can't afford (and wouldn't) Porches, etc.

 

[Oswin]

Back to manual or auto....my left foot has forgotten what to do in a manual car . Haven't driven a manual in years. I guess with the electric take over, it's going to get rarer still!

 

[Minio]

I'm not at all convinced about automatics based on living for 6 weeks with that one.

You have my sympathies there Mark.
I get a Nissan courtesy car every year, usually a Juke automatic.

They vary a lot.
One I had was like yours. The hesitancy was not a great driving experience. A cvt I think.

I've not had a great time with Tiptronics either. Gear change seems to involve a deceleration in the process. Could be Mike Reeds issue above. Quite infuriating.

Others with modern auto boxes are very good. Nice and quick off the mark.

I wouldn't want to buy a new automatic without a test drive first.
But that equally applies to manual. Some cars, especially bigger ones, don't suit manual gearbox.

 

[Suffolk Tony]

i cannot agree - in fact i think i concentrate more on the road and my surroundings in an auto than i ever did with a manual. My auto is not quiet......

I agree G&T. Doing a long journey in today's heavy traffic becomes very tedious and tiring in a manual car. I've no desire to ever return to manual, they're horrid old relics.

 

[chartz]

My left leg has been saying thank you since I went automatic.
It is a blessing to my health (having severe low back pain and MS with a weak left side) changing gears manually is just pointless now.

 

[James]

My perfect automatic would combine:

• Smoothness of a torque-converter, but without its drag/creep
• Changing speed of DSG, but without its jerkiness at crawling pace
• Direct gear change of a manual (e.g. dropping from 6th to 3th gear), but without the need for a clutch

Is there such a thing?

 

[Bart]

Anyone remember the double declutch? Had to do this regularly when approaching t-junctions at the top of 1in5 gradients in the Rhondda, usually missed it and rolled halfway back down the street with gears complaining vociferously.

 

[wow&flutter]

Spoke with my neighbour again this afternoon, he’d arrived home just as I was walking up the driveway. Turns out his new Nissan has a reversing buzzer and it’s mounted under the bonnet! I don’t mean a buzzer that goes off when you get close to an object, this buzzer goes off when the vehicles reversing! Looks good in metallic maroon though!

 

[martin clark]

You have my sympathies there Mark.
I get a Nissan courtesy car every year, usually a Juke automatic.

They vary a lot.
One I had was like yours. The hesitancy was not a great driving experience. A cvt I think.

@Mark Packer is my brother, I got to ride-along in that period; that particular Nissan CVT's latency and programming was utterly-horrid; dangerous even.

15yrs ago as a pool car [my employer/ we] had a 2009 Honda Insight hybrid, with CVT box; that too was ..utterly horrid (also, unusual for Honda - a really nasty rough& gutless engine). I was bemused at the time, despite trying hard to like it on 400+mile trips - because even driving it gently/ cognisant of display re: maximising regen etc - I could go always go further on a gallon of fuel , in my-then 1996 Saab 900 Turbo, that had had the boost turned up markedly by Abbott ..!

The INshite got replaced by a 2016 Hyundai i30 1.6 diesel 6sp-manual - a superb med-size, comfy, simple car; I got the high score of 77-78mpg out of that, on an 80mile journey, repeatedly, without trying.

It is strange: on paper, CVT ought to be the way to go for matching load:engine efficiency 'islands' beyond all else - yet all practical implementations are horrid, in the real world. And - provably nowhere-near as reliable as alternative implementations of 'automatic' / Def not close-to , torque-converter-based ones, for sure.

For myself - I like autos, 2 of last three saloons have been / my present car is: simple but smooth ZF torque-converter type, sufficient displacement behind it, a waftable joy - that will just.step.off, given throttle.

For the bleeding edge in manual control, I have something far more daft.

 

[flatpopely]

Petrolhead that I am, the ZF8 auto is superb. I won’t go back to a manual.
In the Giulia using the paddles it’s a tactile joy.

 

[RJohan]

I'm an automatic fan and was even when the choice in Europe was mostly crappy, British built 3 speed Borg-Warners. Guess what? Auto's has improved tremendously since then, nothing has happened to the 19'th century invention, manual gearboxes.

Still, my current car is manual, thankfully with 'only' 5 speeds to stir around with. An ordinary family car should have 4 speeds, only extreme sport cars should need 5.

 

[James]

Still, my current car is manual, thankfully with 'only' 5 speeds to stir around with. An ordinary family car should have 4 speeds, only extreme sport cars should need 5.

I'm inclined to agree, especially when mated to engines with a wide torque band. I often skip 5th when accelerating to cruising speed.

 

[myles]

Manuals and automatics both have their place. Context is everything. In a rush hour commute, or on a congested motorway, an automatic is much less physically annoying than constantly having to work the clutch, and is generally more relaxing to drive. But a manual, on a good road, in the right circumstances, can be great fun and the automatic won't provide anything close to that.

Driving my Prius on the commute, in the city, in traffic is joyful compared to my VX220. Driving my VX220 where I can open it up is an absolute joy compared to the Prius. They both deliver in the right circumstances, but as we are talking autos I've got to say the Prius is the ideal city car - every journey is 'eventless' and instantly forgettable, which is how I want it.

 

[AnilS]

Modern automatic gearboxes don't (yet) know if I am approaching a sharp bend, or a steep incline. I tend to notice these things before the gearbox does, because I see them coming and plan for them.

My (2017) automatic gearbox doesn't change down of its own accord on a steep descent so unless I do it manually, the car will gather speed and I'll need to keep using the brakes.

If my Arteon is in cruise control mode, it'll slow down for bends, roundabouts etc.

If in eco mode (coasting on minimal throttle) and you get to a steep incline, it reselects an appropriate gear (usually 3 or 4) and provides the braking effect. Oddly clever.
If in sport mode, it'll even blip the throttle as I brake, say for a roundabout, drop down a gear and be ready to unleash massive (no not really) bhp on the exit.

My Z4 was specifically chosen as an auto (has paddles) and is very benign, if old school. However, engage the Sport button and the gearbox remaps, so I'm always in a lower gear, in the meat of the torque curve and it'll also blip the throttle.

Find this highly entertaining and engaging.

Conversely, when I had my Ford Puma (best manual gearbox ever and I've had a few) it was a joy to stir and pick the right gear, especially on twisty country roads.

 

[davidsrsb]

I'm inclined to agree, especially when mated to engines with a wide torque band. I often skip 5th when accelerating to cruising speed.

For those of us not in Germany, a lot of the engine/gearbox range is unusable due to speed limits off a racetrack. Cars are getting ridiculously fast.

 

[gustav_errata]

That's interesting, I assume you not in the UK then. In the UK it is still rare for a small learner car to be available as an auto. In fact my daughters best friend really struggled getting to grips with a manual change and did the auto test and the choice of suitable small cars is very limited or expensive.

When I was learning to drive in the very early 80's auto was almost unheard of except for massive luxury cars.

I am in the UK now but nevertheless you are correct in that I'm from the US. I've been driving since the mid 90s but my first two cars were from the 80s ('88 & '89), respectively. Both were automatic and both were far from luxury. IIRC I spent less than $1000 total for both cars combined.

When I took lessons in the UK to get caught up on the differences driving here (not to mention I went 10+ years without driving at all), I had the fortune of being able to use our car, which of course is automatic. However the instructor did have access to one. It's less common, sure, but it's becoming wider spread I think.

 

[gustav_errata]

I wonder if autos have engine/gear braking when you take your foot off. Naive question but I really don't know. Seems that they should, but my recent experience would seem to be that if any, auto gearbox braking is minimal at best.

My 2015 Volkswagen with automatic transmission does engine breaking automatically.

 

[John Phillips]

It is strange: on paper, CVT ought to be the way to go for matching load:engine efficiency 'islands' beyond all else - yet all practical implementations are horrid, in the real world. And - provably nowhere-near as reliable as alternative implementations of 'automatic' / Def not close-to , torque-converter-based ones, for sure.

On the first part, yes. but I wonder if criticism of CVT automatics depends on details. I have only had one - an Audi A6 with a V6 2.5L diesel engine and a multitronic gearbox. It was the 6-ratio version and used a chain rather than a belt. I ran the car for 175,000 miles and had the ATF changed on schedule. There were rumours of unreliability, and during the warranty period I did indeed get the "flashing PRNDS" problem which Audi fixed. Otherwise it worked perfectly. I thought that this CVT gearbox was good.

 

[mykel]

Sick of manuals? No, not at all. Still quite happy with my 03 EP3 Type R
Granted now that I'm retired it is now a toy / errand runner / mtb and canoe hauler.
I never minded it in traffic. Traffic jams, any manual sucks, but the worst I've had is a heavily modified CRX. Clutch was a stage away from on / off and the flywheel lightened and balanced. That thing was a beast in stop and go but otherwise pretty docile on the street. Track was where it came alive though.