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Should Scotland be an independent country?

Should Scotland be an independent country?

  • Total voters
    132
  • Poll closed .
Tony L said:
I love it, but (say Joy Division, Wire and Magazine excepted), I think I prefer the US late-70s scene to what was happening in the UK; Patti Smith, Television, Talking Heads, Devo, Suicide etc just stand up better today to my mind. I certainly far preferred what came after punk to punk itself. In the UK punk just blew the doors off, the real creativity came later, though somehow in the US it all arrived simultaneously and earlier! I think I just like cerebral and long!
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I guess for me, being an old git, punk 'began' with Iggy & The Stooges' Raw Power, The New Yorks Dolls' debut album and Lenny Kaye's 'Nuggets' compilation. After a year or so, I bought 'Horses', 'Marquee Moon' and 'The Modern Lovers'. I didn't like UK punk at all when I first heard it, probably because of my old git-ness.
 
Joe Hutch said:
I guess for me, being an old git, punk 'began' with Iggy & The Stooges' Raw Power, The New Yorks Dolls' debut album and Lenny Kaye's 'Nuggets' compilation.
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I guess The Stooges debut and MC5 Kick Out The Jams is really when it started, though all that is way before my time. I got into this earlier stuff back in the mid-‘80s along with Velvet Underground and a fair bit of Krautrock (Can etc). Way after the fact, yet it is music that remains totally relevant today. I find it hard to comprehend that Patti Smith’s Horses is a 1975 album too. That was a game-changer for sure. I certainly remember that one being a thing at school, though likely a couple of years after release when Devo, Television, Tom Robinson Band, Elvis Costello, Ramones etc were the cool albums to be seen with. I’m probably thinking of ‘78 here, so my fourth year at secondary.

PS I never got the New York Dolls at all, they just sound like The Stones to me!
 
New York Dolls were mutant glam gone horribly wrong, I never “got” them, my older brother had one of their LPs along with Box Scaggs and Frampton Comes Alive so it was default uncool, but monobrowed unshaven men in grandma-drag meets cheap walgreens-blusher-and-lipstick-prostitution-chic was worth anyone’s time. Two albums was all they needed. Discovered after the fact. Likewise Suicide: first album and that’s yer lot as far as I care. They were definitely prototype early synth pop but with that weird rockabilly sensibility, loved it all but it was already retro when found in the U.K. I keep meaning to buy the vinyl reissue with the bootleg of them being booed off at an Elvis Costello gig.

I’m not sure if CBGBs and all that stripped back Psychedelic Americana Nuggets stuff was punk but a step towards punk in the same may punk was a necessary step to new wave and post punk and beyond. I don’t care it’s a glorious mess, as long as it was short, simple and especially if grown ups hated it, it was ok.

I remember DEVO’s first official album on Virgin U.K. and thought it was poor but then I somehow had the Workforce to the World Live On Site bootleg which was all I needed of that Booji-Boy era. The LP they should have released and one late night last year I rebought it for too much off of Discogs. It was as vital as quirky mutant punk then as it is now.

screw this thread, it’s mine now
 
I'm a boomer apparently...no idea what that is, but remember booming in the circle at Hammersmith to Devo...the whole bloody floor was pogoing. Was that proper Boomer behaviour?
 
No idea what a boomer is but Maajid Nawaz on LBC was talking about Russian financing of agitprop for independence in Scotland as well as Russian financing of Brexit propaganda.

And what was Dominic Cummings doing in Moscow for 3 years.

Long holiday?
 
claire.foxx said:
I see it as US Punks 74-76 being the last of the boomers and are hardly even boomers really as they were so disaffected and messed up by their parents and expectations they were practically Gen X. There is a thing called Generation Jones which I think applies to Your demographic. It catches the very last gasp of the boomer era who got little to nothing of the boomer years except the disaffection and social exclusion of their greedy-ass elders but happen to fall into that demographic so naturally they said “**** that shit” and made up their own DIY demographic, which IMV is as punk as it gets.

Millennials and Z honestly have no ****s to give about boomers and are asking ppl like Brian “why aren’t you dead yet?” & it’s a damn good question. Gen X are overlooked but we’re definitely on parole. Cuspers, Twixters, MinionZ the demographic world is awash with myriad terms that make rhyming couplets easier, that’s about it.

But Brian is still a Boomer
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Not according to your https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Jones link. Perhaps you should read it. :D

Only listenable punk is The Stranglers and Green Day. Probably means something on the label thing but I don’t know what.

Interesting generalisations being made and obviously generalising can be fun. It’s giving me a laugh on an otherwise quiet day when I was going to do some work on one of my houses but unfortunately my man hasn’t washed the Sunday car yet so I’m stuck indoors with time to put down these words of wisdom.

Back in a fictional life, I left school at 16 to the dole. I had to leave home to get work so it didn’t look like a boom at the time, but it’s all relative, I suppose. I realise later generations of entitled, bone-idle layabouts feel those before them had it handed to them on a plate, but the reality is I just got on with it after years of being kicked around and worked my knackers off. I’ve been lucky to have always worked, some of my friends and family haven’t been so fortunate despite being boomers apparently. Some are dead, no doubt the entitled generation are happy with that.
 
It would seem I'm one of the 'Jones' lot, though I've done OK without working too much, either through being very intelligent or just being lucky. (My money's on the 'lucky' option).
 
eternumviti said:
Funny how independence and self-determination is considered to be just fine for New Zealand or Scotland (as well as Australia, the US, China, Japan, Switzerland etc), but for some reason not the UK.
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Probably something to do with being 'adult' enough to run their own countries properly (the US currently excepted) whereas in the UK (well England really) we have the Tories and people like you to enable their self centred ideologies. The likes of Cameron, May, Johnson etc. need less say over our lives not more!

If Brexit happens Scotland will be independent within 5 years and best of luck to them!
 
There does appear to have been a very substantial divergence in politics between Scotland and England in recent years. England seems to be heading more to being dominated by US style politics (i.e. greed, isolationism and, for a sizable chunk of the population, barely disguised racism) where Scotland is heading more towards the sort of values the Scandinavian countries have. Brexit is really serving to bring that to the fore, and certainly up here I'm hearing a lot of people who've been pro-Union before now saying that if it's a choice between being part of the EU or part of the UK then they'd choose the EU. So while I didn't think the last independence referendum was likely to end with a yes vote I think there is a very substantial chance that it would now - especially if it happens in 2020 after we've left the EU with either a shit deal or no-deal, and with the UK parliament dominated by the Tories with a substantial majority - which is looking quite likely.
 
SteveG said:
England seems to be heading more to being dominated by US style politics (i.e. greed, isolationism and, for a sizable chunk of the population, barely disguised racism) where Scotland is heading more towards the sort of values the Scandinavian countries have.
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this is very much my perception. we are (hopefully) creating a more egalitarian society in which everyone has a stake
 
Interesting that support for Scottish independence is fairly comfortable in the poll I've set up. I'd imagine that the forum isn't occupied by too many Scots either, so maybe an indication, however small, that support for independence is there.
 
Deej said:
Interesting that support for Scottish independence is fairly comfortable in the poll I've set up. I'd imagine that the forum isn't occupied by too many Scots either, so maybe an indication, however small, that support for independence is there.
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Or


The English would be glad to see the back of The Scots ? :rolleyes:
 
HairyHaggis said:
this is very much my perception. we are (hopefully) creating a more egalitarian society in which everyone has a stake
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I honestly can't see how the SNP economic model for Scotland is sustainable if they gain their independence. At the moment Scottish Public expenditure is £1400 higher per head than the rest of the UK average. How will that be achieved ?
 
I worry that the SNP are peddling a similar portfolio of illusions to that from the Brexit campaign; at the same time appealing to the universal tribal instinct.

Is there now a certainty that an Independent Scotland would be allowed entry to the EU with a waiving of the entry requirements?
 
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