That’s probably what it is.
Should I buy an EV - real world advice needed.
- Thread starter beammeup
- Start date
Ponty
pfm Member
Sounds like it. They’re offering Tesla M3 long range at £358 + VAT on 48 months. At that sort of money, it could make a lot of sense for the right user. Trouble is, it’s economically unsustainable and based on huge manufacturer blind discounts and govt / taxpayer bribes.
I’d be tempted by that i5, I bet it’s lovely, but have absolutely no purpose for it!
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
Sorry more charger anecdotal nonsense. Firstly Derby is hardly a 2hr diversion and secondly there is a newish 250kw supercharger station at Mansfield just off J28 at midpoint not to mention Barnsley, Woodall, Sutton Coldfield, the Belfry, Measham all on the Leeds to Solihull route.
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
Just wow.
cubastreet
Espresso Fiend
Easier than what? A cabbage?
andyoz
pfm Member
I was casually looking at used Honda E's on AutoTrader. Values have really dropped on used and £7k discounts on new (essentially 20%).
They're an interesting wee thing.
It just strikes me that the EV industry has tried/been forced to go too far, too fast. Apart from Tesla, the rest look to be just emerging from beta stage
They're an interesting wee thing.
It just strikes me that the EV industry has tried/been forced to go too far, too fast. Apart from Tesla, the rest look to be just emerging from beta stage
Richard Lines
pfm Member
Good morning all,
Just completed watching the video posted by Monty above. It is indeed pretty balanced although clearly the presenter loves the sound of his own voice!
The cost of charging does need addressing. We are able to charge at home and are currently on Octopus IOG so paying 7.5p per kWh and very rarely have to charge away from home because we only use the Zoe within its range capabilities.
ATM the government seems to be allowing the 'free market' to 'do its own thing' regarding any aspect of the emerging EV world. I am not an economist or somebody who fully understands how large markets work but I believe the 'free market' needs 'interfering with' in a considered way which will need discussion between the government and various bodies. Can I see it happening - err no - it should already have happened.
Regards
Richard
Just completed watching the video posted by Monty above. It is indeed pretty balanced although clearly the presenter loves the sound of his own voice!
The cost of charging does need addressing. We are able to charge at home and are currently on Octopus IOG so paying 7.5p per kWh and very rarely have to charge away from home because we only use the Zoe within its range capabilities.
ATM the government seems to be allowing the 'free market' to 'do its own thing' regarding any aspect of the emerging EV world. I am not an economist or somebody who fully understands how large markets work but I believe the 'free market' needs 'interfering with' in a considered way which will need discussion between the government and various bodies. Can I see it happening - err no - it should already have happened.
Regards
Richard
It actually happened, he told me about it, we left out meeting at the same time. I was home for 4.50, he arrived homes at just before 8. Under normal circumstances he would have been home around 6pm.
If only everyone was as knowledgeable as you.
It does seem like he made a bit of a mistake. I haven't done Leeds to Solihull but I used to regularly do Leeds to Lichfield, which is near enough. That took you down the M1, A38 past Derby, Burton, Lichfield. I don't have an intimate knowledge of the W Mids but it can't be a 2 hour diversion unless you foul up because Leeds-Lich is under 3 hours in light traffic. Bearing in mind that the M1 takes you past all the big services and a few smaller ones on the way to the M42, it seems unlikely that he wouldn't have been able to get a 20 minute charge somewhere en route while he had a coffee and browsed the magazines to give him enough juice to get home.
tqineil
Ubi fides ibi lux et robur
Was he only looking for Tesla chargers as he could use any fast charger at a price? So many fast chargers (Tesla) around Solihull/Sutton Coldfield and dozens more non Tesla in the region - being directed to Derby seems more due to inexperience to me?
It takes around 2hours from Sheffield so definitely another 40 mins or so from Leeds. It’s M1/M42. For some reason he was directed onto the M6 toll. If you don’t know an area then you tend to rely on the Nav system.
As it stands if you do regular 200 mile plus round trips then EV is less effective or convenient. As I stated in my original post, for 95% of the time his Tesla works great.
For some reason this was interpreted as scaremongering.
People can be a bit odd about this issue.
Yes, but if you don’t know the area you do as directed on the sat nav. I can’t quite work out how he was directed to Derby.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Surely if the route is M1-M42 as upthread, then you'll pass pretty close to Derby anyway, just north of J24 or thereabouts, near East Mids Airport.
Martin hifi
pfm Member
He'll have gone M1, M42 I suspect. From junction 25 M1 into Derby, charge up and back out again at any time in the afternoon I can highly believe that adding on two hours.
Coming from someone who lives just outside Derby but regularly has to go in and out to Pride Park to pick up parts, the traffic is abysmal every single day on all routes- what should be a half hour round trip can take me well over an hour.
That part isn't the daft part, it is the umpteen chargers he would have passed on the 42 or even M1. Unless of course he is determined to only use a Supercharger but even then as mentioned above there is a raft of them at Junction 28 which is 20 minutes from J25 Derby so that doesn't make much sense.
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
Sorry for overreacting a bit. I do get triggered by constant misinformation about EV's. They are not perfect by any means nor suitable for everyone but lack of basic journey planning is not a fault of EV's. It's a like saying sorry I was late but the sat nav sent me to a different petrol station in the centre of Derby. Not really a fuel problem.
I am driving to Redcar and back tomorrow (nearly 500 miles). According to many it shouldn't be possible in less than 3 days, should I pack a tent while I wait for charging, will the car spontaneously ignite, will my insurance premium double during the journey, will the weight of the car cause subsidence - watch out for a furrow down the M1 and A1 - will I need to change the battery, its over 3 years old now, surely only worth the price of a bag of crisps now. Oh the worry, oh the humanity!!!
NeilR
pfm Member
As EVs are so terrible, it is amazing that owners like ourselves are so happily with our choices and would even buy another one when it comes to replacing our EVs. We must be gluttons for punishment!
Nothing wrong with EVs, just as long as your use case is catered by one. As the technology and infrastructure improves, this use case expands.
Our 2nd EV
We have a Gen 1.5 Nissan Leaf, made in 2014. Our 2nd EV. I did drive it more than 70 miles, three times exactly. Made good use of the Ecotricity free charging at the time. Did that in the first 2 years of ownership. The third time was awful, doubled our journey time from 3 hours to almost 7 hours, because it took so long to charge and there were others in the queue. We use it solely around town/city driving now, life is too short.
Recently replaced a 3l diesel Mercedes with a 3l petrol BMW.
Why didn't we get an EV?
We've seen the bun fights and queues for power. People charging on 7KW at a rapid because they didn't know you had to remove the bung to the DC connections and get 150KW charging. I've helped a few people, most were very grateful, one didn't want to know and was indignant that I had intruded.
Tesla are still in pole position as far as charging away from the home is concerned. Shame about Tesla's figurehead.
They are still expensive for what you get, though in the last 9 months the delta between a decently appointed ICE car and equivalent EV has shrunk. Tesla are still not as well made as your mid range Mercedes or BMW or Audi.
When will we get an EV? When they're properly able to replace an ICE car, for us that means:
1. Military level of route planning not required - taking into account the weather, time of day, date (is it a public holiday?) and position and availability of charging stations
2. Decent range, 300 miles in any weather, so in reality that means 400 miles declared range
3. Quick charging, 15 mins giving another 200 miles of range
4. Availability of charging, see number 1
5. Cost parity to purchase of an ICE car
6. Cost parity in insurance
7. Cost parity in running cost (way better already if you can charge at home and if you're on a cheap tariff - lots of ifs)
8. They sound boring
All the points have got better in the last few years and the reasons not to have one are decreasing.
Some positives from my experiences
Battery degradation, our Nissan Leaf, often criticised for it's passive battery thermal management has done quite well, it still retains over 90% of it's battery capacity and range, so I can still drive it 75 miles (slowly) it's over 9 years old and done 70k miles.
Maintenance, it's still on its original brake pads and disks, though it has had a couple of front suspension ball joints and LCA.
Its had one oil change. On its 5th set of tyres.
What's in store in the next few years?
Look out for Chinese EVs, I've had a recce of a BYD Seal, Tesla will have issues in the near future. There are plenty of other China TVs that will shake up the market.
Governments will need to implement road charging or other similar mechanisms to recoup the loss of petrol/diesel tax revenues, this applies especially to the UK.
Increased insurance costs till EV manufacturers design their cars with a view of easier repair, damage inspectors to re-calibrate for EVs, so nowriting off of batteries for scratching the outer casing and improved parts availability. Otherwise we'll get priced out of EVs due to short-sighted thinking and practices.
Our 2nd EV
We have a Gen 1.5 Nissan Leaf, made in 2014. Our 2nd EV. I did drive it more than 70 miles, three times exactly. Made good use of the Ecotricity free charging at the time. Did that in the first 2 years of ownership. The third time was awful, doubled our journey time from 3 hours to almost 7 hours, because it took so long to charge and there were others in the queue. We use it solely around town/city driving now, life is too short.
Recently replaced a 3l diesel Mercedes with a 3l petrol BMW.
Why didn't we get an EV?
We've seen the bun fights and queues for power. People charging on 7KW at a rapid because they didn't know you had to remove the bung to the DC connections and get 150KW charging. I've helped a few people, most were very grateful, one didn't want to know and was indignant that I had intruded.
Tesla are still in pole position as far as charging away from the home is concerned. Shame about Tesla's figurehead.
They are still expensive for what you get, though in the last 9 months the delta between a decently appointed ICE car and equivalent EV has shrunk. Tesla are still not as well made as your mid range Mercedes or BMW or Audi.
When will we get an EV? When they're properly able to replace an ICE car, for us that means:
1. Military level of route planning not required - taking into account the weather, time of day, date (is it a public holiday?) and position and availability of charging stations
2. Decent range, 300 miles in any weather, so in reality that means 400 miles declared range
3. Quick charging, 15 mins giving another 200 miles of range
4. Availability of charging, see number 1
5. Cost parity to purchase of an ICE car
6. Cost parity in insurance
7. Cost parity in running cost (way better already if you can charge at home and if you're on a cheap tariff - lots of ifs)
8. They sound boring
All the points have got better in the last few years and the reasons not to have one are decreasing.
Some positives from my experiences
Battery degradation, our Nissan Leaf, often criticised for it's passive battery thermal management has done quite well, it still retains over 90% of it's battery capacity and range, so I can still drive it 75 miles (slowly) it's over 9 years old and done 70k miles.
Maintenance, it's still on its original brake pads and disks, though it has had a couple of front suspension ball joints and LCA.
Its had one oil change. On its 5th set of tyres.
What's in store in the next few years?
Look out for Chinese EVs, I've had a recce of a BYD Seal, Tesla will have issues in the near future. There are plenty of other China TVs that will shake up the market.
Governments will need to implement road charging or other similar mechanisms to recoup the loss of petrol/diesel tax revenues, this applies especially to the UK.
Increased insurance costs till EV manufacturers design their cars with a view of easier repair, damage inspectors to re-calibrate for EVs, so nowriting off of batteries for scratching the outer casing and improved parts availability. Otherwise we'll get priced out of EVs due to short-sighted thinking and practices.
Thanks! A composition from some one with actual experience. So, you own both an ICE and an EV?
Bananahead
pfm Member
Based on my use case. Audi Q4 top spec leased-ish in Switzerland.
1. I only have small observations based on using my eyes. On a recent 2000 km trip to the UK the only issue I saw was a queue of 3 Teslas for superchargers.
2. Claimed 316 miles.
3. 100 miles in 10 mins. Getting there...
4. I see a lot.
5. Q4 EV 62,595.00 GBP or Q5 Petrol 61,375.00 GBP
6. Quote is 95% of petrol
7. Way better
8. They already do
