Should I buy an EV - real world advice needed.

[cutting42]

Nothing wrong with EVs, just as long as your use case is catered by one. As the technology and infrastructure improves, this use case expands.
Our 2nd EV
We have a Gen 1.5 Nissan Leaf, made in 2014. Our 2nd EV. I did drive it more than 70 miles, three times exactly. Made good use of the Ecotricity free charging at the time. Did that in the first 2 years of ownership. The third time was awful, doubled our journey time from 3 hours to almost 7 hours, because it took so long to charge and there were others in the queue. We use it solely around town/city driving now, life is too short.

Recently replaced a 3l diesel Mercedes with a 3l petrol BMW.

Why didn't we get an EV?
We've seen the bun fights and queues for power. People charging on 7KW at a rapid because they didn't know you had to remove the bung to the DC connections and get 150KW charging. I've helped a few people, most were very grateful, one didn't want to know and was indignant that I had intruded.

Tesla are still in pole position as far as charging away from the home is concerned. Shame about Tesla's figurehead.

They are still expensive for what you get, though in the last 9 months the delta between a decently appointed ICE car and equivalent EV has shrunk. Tesla are still not as well made as your mid range Mercedes or BMW or Audi.

When will we get an EV? When they're properly able to replace an ICE car, for us that means:
1. Military level of route planning not required - taking into account the weather, time of day, date (is it a public holiday?) and position and availability of charging stations
2. Decent range, 300 miles in any weather, so in reality that means 400 miles declared range
3. Quick charging, 15 mins giving another 200 miles of range
4. Availability of charging, see number 1
5. Cost parity to purchase of an ICE car
6. Cost parity in insurance
7. Cost parity in running cost (way better already if you can charge at home and if you're on a cheap tariff - lots of ifs)
8. They sound boring

All the points have got better in the last few years and the reasons not to have one are decreasing.

Some positives from my experiences
Battery degradation, our Nissan Leaf, often criticised for it's passive battery thermal management has done quite well, it still retains over 90% of it's battery capacity and range, so I can still drive it 75 miles (slowly) it's over 9 years old and done 70k miles.
Maintenance, it's still on its original brake pads and disks, though it has had a couple of front suspension ball joints and LCA.
Its had one oil change. On its 5th set of tyres.

What's in store in the next few years?
Look out for Chinese EVs, I've had a recce of a BYD Seal, Tesla will have issues in the near future. There are plenty of other China TVs that will shake up the market.
Governments will need to implement road charging or other similar mechanisms to recoup the loss of petrol/diesel tax revenues, this applies especially to the UK.
Increased insurance costs till EV manufacturers design their cars with a view of easier repair, damage inspectors to re-calibrate for EVs, so nowriting off of batteries for scratching the outer casing and improved parts availability. Otherwise we'll get priced out of EVs due to short-sighted thinking and practices.

Good post

1. This is here today on Tesla network but agree for other networks
2. Lots of cars with 400 mile ranges now - at a cost though. Fast easy charging does help with this as most folks can't drive without a stop for even 200 miles
3. I can get 200 miles range added in 10-15 mins from a 250kw supercharger
4. see number 1
5. Depends on the car category. Here now for premium pricing and getting there from mid level. Some way to go for entry level/city cars
6. Agreed but not sure if it is EV itself or the cost to repair . As mainstream brands make and sell more, this should improve
7. What you said
8. Not much to say, buy a Ferrari for the weekend maybe? The BMW got Hans Zimmer to design funky sounds for their EV's

The Chinese cars are interesting but they still need a charging network, see number 1

My solution is to have a national standard of chargers, all working off the same RFID card or similar, even better, a std ID in the car so when you plug it in it recognises it and charges to a central account. Can still have different suppliers of chargers but one way to pay for it. Most charger breakdowns are down to failures in the billing system on the machine I believe. Scotland have a similar system and it works brilliantly,

 

[firestorm]

Thanks! A composition from some one with actual experience. So, you own both an ICE and an EV?

Yes, short range EV for local use. BMW 440i GC for long distance. Lotus Elise S2 SC for fun.

Based on my use case. Audi Q4 top spec leased-ish in Switzerland.

1. I only have small observations based on using my eyes. On a recent 2000 km trip to the UK the only issue I saw was a queue of 3 Teslas for superchargers.
2. Claimed 316 miles.
3. 100 miles in 10 mins. Getting there...
4. I see a lot.
5. Q4 EV 62,595.00 GBP or Q5 Petrol 61,375.00 GBP
6. Quote is 95% of petrol
7. Way better
8. They already do

1. Majority of the time I travel, I don't see many queues, but any EV charging queue, the wait for any EV queue is long due to the charging times.
2. Exactly, claimed. At 316 miles, you'd get 280 miles if you're very careful, drive at 60 mph (100kph) if it isn't too windy, is dry and between 10-20c. I found the range drops by about 10% if it rains, another 5% if the wind is against you, another 10% if the temp is below 0c. Don't bother driving at 140-150kph, that'll really kill your range. Obviously an ICE car is similarly affected, though not many people notice as the range is much higher.
3. Yep, it's definitely better. Though there aren't many 350KW chargers, many of them don't operate at that rate and not many cars charge at the 700V regime.
5. I don't buy new cars. My newest car is 7 years old that I bought 4 weeks ago. My oldest car is a 2005 model. I can't see any 7 year old EV cars that has 400 miles real range (at 140kph) that fills up in less than 5 minutes any where in Europe that is well designed that costs less than €30k.
6. I got quoted on a Tesla Model 3, 1300GBP. Mercedes Benz CLS 3.0 500GBP. BMW 440i GC 700GBP.
7. Only if you charge at home on a special EV tariff, if you rely on public charging, it's at 0.70GBP per kWh for an Audi Etron whatever, then it's more expensive to run than a twin turbo V6.
8. Quieter yes, better sounding? That's subjective, but I'd prefer a sonorous V8 or 6 cylinder.

For me the only charging network that would work for me is Tesla's. The government botched the launch of private charging initiative by not insisting on cross-compatibility and not dropping VAT to domestic levels.

 

[Woodface]

I think in the medium term an EV for city driving & an ICE for longer journeys makes sense. ICE is very efficient on longer journeys my 330i will do over 50mpg on a longish run.

Ultimately you just buy what suits your needs. No need to draw battle lines.

 

[RJohan]

Ultimately you just buy what suits your needs. No need to draw battle lines.

Yeah!!!!

FIY I don't own an EV and probably never will. Not because I'm against EV's (the contrary is true), but I hate touchscreen dashboards (usual in most modern cars, not just EV's) and having to mock about with 'apps' in a 'smart' phone just to fill her up...

 

[SteveG]

I think in the medium term an EV for city driving & an ICE for longer journeys makes sense. ICE is very efficient on longer journeys my 330i will do over 50mpg on a longish run.

Ultimately you just buy what suits your needs. No need to draw battle lines.

If driven the same way (i.e. gently) my petrol estate car is more economical on long runs than my hybrid 4x4, but the hybrid is better round town when it's running just on electric.

If we did more town driving (e.g. commuting daily) I'd probably get a small EV for that, and keep an ICE or hybrid for our longer journeys (which we do frequently). That's most likely only ever get charged at home, which does away with issues around access to working chargers. When I first got the hybrid I did charge it from time to time at public chargers but have pretty much stopped now, partly due to issues with finding working chargers in the remoter areas that I'm often in.

 

[Ponty]

I think in the medium term an EV for city driving & an ICE for longer journeys makes sense. ICE is very efficient on longer journeys my 330i will do over 50mpg on a longish run.

Ultimately you just buy what suits your needs. No need to draw battle lines.

100%, buy whatever horse works for your course. I’d question the environmental credentials of manufacturing and running 2 vehicles used for different purposes over 1 which does everything, however they are powered.

 

[Woodface]

100%, buy whatever horse works for your course. I’d question the environmental credentials of manufacturing and running 2 vehicles used for different purposes over 1 which does everything, however they are powered.

I agree that its better to have one car but my wife has differing taste in cars & the means to buy her own.

 

[Ponty]

I agree that its better to have one car but my wife has differing taste in cars & the means to buy her own.

Sure, but that’s excess consumerism in action, and what the planet is crying out for us mere humans to do less of. Ultimately, the planet will win of course.

 

[Woodface]

Sure, but that’s excess consumerism in action, and what the planet is crying out for us mere humans to do less of. Ultimately, the planet will win of course.

I'm acutely aware of my own hypocrisy

 

[gintonic]

We'll all be long gone when it burns to fiery hell

 

[Ponty]

We'll all be long gone when it burns to fiery hell

Won’t need to go anywhere near that far. More of the planet inhospitable to human habitation, mass migration, unchecked population growth, food shortages etc etc. Plenty of unpleasantness for humans whilst the planet adapts.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

Crikey… a rare massive thumbs down from Harry Metcalf:

What a ridiculous monstrosity, IMO.

 

[matt j]

Yeah a bit of a turd that one, yet again giving us cars nobody asked for.

 

[cutting42]

Crikey… a rare massive thumbs down Brom Harry Metcalf:

What a ridiculous monstrosity, IMO.

I recently test drove the i4 which was the older iDrive stuff and a very pleasant electric version of the 4 series and I liked it well. I then drove the new iX1 which had similar software to the i5 described by Harry and very much did not like it.

As my job now involves considerable driving around this fair land, I am probably headed back to Tesla world to get two of the same cars in succession for only the second time in my life.

 

[Richard Lines]

Good morning all,

I continue to maintain it isn't cars with long range that are required but a change in mindset where journeys of 300+ are 'necessary'.

Regards

Richard

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Journeys of 300+ miles will always be necessary. For some, it will be a weekly occurrence (I had a job like that for 20 years), for others it will be once in a while, perhaps only for the annual holiday. But an inability to do those without planning, and some jeopardy over whether a charging station will be available, working and timely, will make the option unviable. We went to Arran on holiday a couple of years ago, >300 miles to the ferry, and a ticket for a timed crossing. We'd have had to leave at least an extra couple of hours to be sure of getting a recharge without risking being late for our crossing. Ditto, anybody driving to France from the Northern parts, etc, etc. Yes, it's only a handful of events, but these events are not unimportant ones and if there's a question over whether the car is suitable, the easy decision is to choose something else.

The problem isn't electric cars, or even the limited range, it's the currently inadequate charging infrastructure. That won't change fast enough unless something pushes it. Falling EV sales might be a key factor in that.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

Tony’s Top Tip Today

Look at how many Porsche Taycans are on Autotrader

 

[tones]

Journeys of 300+ miles will always be necessary. For some, it will be a weekly occurrence (I had a job like that for 20 years), for others it will be once in a while, perhaps only for the annual holiday. But an inability to do those without planning, and some jeopardy over whether a charging station will be available, working and timely, will make the option unviable. We went to Arran on holiday a couple of years ago, >300 miles to the ferry, and a ticket for a timed crossing. We'd have had to leave at least an extra couple of hours to be sure of getting a recharge without risking being late for our crossing. Ditto, anybody driving to France from the Northern parts, etc, etc. Yes, it's only a handful of events, but these events are not unimportant ones and if there's a question over whether the car is suitable, the easy decision is to choose something else.

The problem isn't electric cars, or even the limited range, it's the currently inadequate charging infrastructure. That won't change fast enough unless something pushes it. Falling EV sales might be a key factor in that.

Here in Swizzieland, an EV would be fine for us - but then, I think of the annual long haul from Basel to Belfast. Basel to Cherbourg via Amiens (to avoid the traffic nightmare called Paris) is about 600 miles. Pushing to make the Dublin ferry check-in deadline, I wouldn't want the added difficulty of finding a charging station.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

I think most on this forum have driveways and garages. So most here, if they had an EV, could prepare for long journeys without too much thought. Just charge it up over the previous day or two, sorted.

But if you live in a terrace or a flat so can’t have a charger, as many millions do, and drive fifty miles each day commuting, and want to go somewhere one evening that is say 60 miles away, in January… there are a few variables creeping in that mean the owner of an EV that only has a 200 mile range on a good day will start getting worried. They could send up paying through the nose for their charge on a forecourt somewhere. They might be in a bit of a hurry.

I’m ok, we’ve a driveway and garage, with plenty of power in the garage, solar power too. But I go to Norwich fairly regularly, using the A140. There ain’t a lot of civilisation on that road, and the thought of driving back down it at 10pm on a Sunday night in winter with 50 miles range left wouldn’t fill me with confidence, especially as that road frequently suffers incidents that cause closed roads and long detours.

If I was retired and don’t give a hoot about being anywhere on time, and could afford a Passat estate sized EV, yeah, why not. At the mo? No.

 

[gez]

I think most on this forum have driveways and garages. So most here, if they had an EV, could prepare for long journeys without too much thought. Just charge it up over the previous day or two, sorted.

But if you live in a terrace or a flat so can’t have a charger, as many millions do, and drive fifty miles each day commuting, and want to go somewhere one evening that is say 60 miles away, in January… there are a few variables creeping in that mean the owner of an EV that only has a 200 mile range on a good day will start getting worried. They could send up paying through the nose for their charge on a forecourt somewhere. They might be in a bit of a hurry.

I’m ok, we’ve a driveway and garage, with plenty of power in the garage, solar power too. But I go to Norwich fairly regularly, using the A140. There ain’t a lot of civilisation on that road, and the thought of driving back down it at 10pm on a Sunday night in winter with 50 miles range left wouldn’t fill me with confidence, especially as that road frequently suffers incidents that cause closed roads and long detours.

If I was retired and don’t give a hoot about being anywhere on time, and could afford a Passat estate sized EV, yeah, why not. At the mo? No.

Based on what exactly?

Yes, your second paragraph is the main issue today for many.

Even if we accept the oft quoted statement that "60% of UK homes have off street parking" that still leaves 40% of all households with no access to overnight charging. At least until all councils implement road side chargers, which to be frank I don't believe will ever achieve 100% coverage of all on street parking.

Fact is majority of people are not prepared to make purchase decisions based on promises or "in the future...." They won't purchase an EV unless they can support it Today. So that leaves 40% of householders having no viable way to charge an EV daily unless their employer provides facilities to do so, of which just a look around on the street will show that that is a tiny minority of employers.

80% of the UK population lives in urban areas and if the following is true...

"Just one in six rural homes do not have access to off-street parking, while in major cities and town centres this figure rises to 60%"

A third of UK homeowners don’t have a driveway or garage to

Electric car drivers face a postcode lottery on public charging as the lack of ‘on-street’ infrastructure threatens to pull the plug on the uptake o

www.transportxtra.com

There's reason to be skeptical of the claim that 60% of households have off street parking.