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Scottish Independence - Court case lost

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Brian, Nov 23, 2022.

  1. tuga

    tuga Legal Alien

    Is this serious? Which countries would have wanted to be vassal states of the UK?
  2. tuga

    tuga Legal Alien

  3. richardg

    richardg Admonishtrator

    If Scotland got the independence becasue of Brexit, it would be a Brexit benefit for both sides.
  4. tuga

    tuga Legal Alien

    Scotland AND the EU.
    rbrown likes this.
  5. myles

    myles Intentionally left blank

  6. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    What are you trying to show by posting this graphic yet again?

    You may not be aware that the nationalist party in Scotland has existed for nearly 100 years, their desire to break up the UK is nothing to do with brexit, remain or leave.

    In general, it’s said the tories don’t have a mandate for taking the UK headlong down their ideological path and I agree. Explain why the SNP does in Scotland. Here are the numbers from the 2019 GE.

    UK in 2019
    Electorate = 47,568,611
    Tory vote = 13,966,454 (29%)

    Scotland in 2019
    Electorate = 4,053,140
    SNP vote = 1,242,380 (30%)

    2.8 million people from the electorate of ~4 million in Scotland did not vote SNP. Like the tories, the SNP benefits from FPTP at a UK GE and is good at propaganda.

    It’s a bit daft but I’ve seen people refer to the EU leave vote as a percentage of the entire UK population, so I will take the liberty of adding the population in Scotland in 2019 was 5.454 million, just over 1 in 5 people support the nationalist party.

  7. tuga

    tuga Legal Alien

    That most people in Scotland voted remain.
  8. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    Many local rulers with weak claim to the throne (2nd in line etc) backed by the threat of UK force. This method was invented by the Romans, but perfected by the UK in S and SE Asia
    tuga likes this.
  9. dweezil

    dweezil pfm Member

    That's exactly the point, none, it should have evolved.
    tuga likes this.
  10. Jim Audiomisc

    Jim Audiomisc pfm Member

    The add to that the repeated "warnings" by the Tories during IndyRef that if Scotland left the UK it would also be expelled from the EU.

    I realise that people 'down south' may not have seen this because it was probably mainly reported via Scottish media. But I'm quite sure it affected the numbers who voted for/against Scots Independence at the time. I know it was the main reason I voted against, and otherwise would have probably voted for independence.
    tuga likes this.
  11. Jim Audiomisc

    Jim Audiomisc pfm Member

    I'd be interested to know the source of your figures, and for later times.

    Note also that the Greens support Scots Independence. FWIW I tend to vote for them.

    And in an election people may vote 'tactically' or on a number of issues.

    Note also that the representation in the Scots Parliament is based on a proportional system, and the Greens + SNP have the Government at present.

    However coming back to the main point wrt the *Court Case*: This shows quite clearly that the 'partnership' is NOT one of 'equals'. As exampled in previous postings.
    tuga likes this.
  12. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Indeed, and that makes them vastly more legitimate than any Tory or Labour Westminster government who obtain absolute power from a distinctly minority vote share.
    brian2957 and tuga like this.
  13. Jim Audiomisc

    Jim Audiomisc pfm Member

    TBH I'd be much happier if the UK could rid itself of being hagridden by Tories and their dodgy paymasters/puppetmasters. And given that and a fairer, more decent society, I suspect the urge for Scots Independence would also fade.

    As it is, the Tory Hegemony and their behaviour inflicted upon us all is one of the main drivers of sympathy/support for Scots Independence. Alas, I see no sign of that changing because they also 'own' the media... or rather a lot of the media 'own' the Tories - for the sake of the wealthy, tax dodging, non-dom, owners.
  14. Seeker_UK

    Seeker_UK Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans

    GE results from Wikipedia, I'd guess.

    It's probably a better indicator or Scots' attitudes towards the relationship with the Union than the national elections which may be more about whos best running the devolved powers.
  15. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    Well, yes. Why you posted it remains a mystery but I won’t bother with it because this thread is not about brexit.

    What are your thoughts on the factual figures I posted showing a minority support for nationalism in Scotland?
  16. Jim Audiomisc

    Jim Audiomisc pfm Member

    Perhaps it is a "mystery" to you because you remain unaware of the way a 'warning' that "Leaving the UK would mean being out of the EU and not allowed to stay in *or* rejoin the EU" (1) was repeatedly made during the IndyRef by the Tories and others. The idea that absolutely no-one was deterred by that seems implausible. It certainly affected me. How many others allowed it to change their vote I can't say. But it certainly was a factor.

    (1) Spain and Catelonia was repeatedly used as a means to promote this claim. Again, though, you may be totally unaware of this use of that case to sway IndyRef votes against voting for Scots Independence from the Uk. So I think it likely that the *Tories* thought it would significantly sway voting.
    tuga likes this.
  17. Jim Audiomisc

    Jim Audiomisc pfm Member

    The other elephant in that room, though, is that in general it would have been regarded as a 'wasted vote' to vote Green in a UK GE because of FPTP. Whereas voting Green *does* have an impact in the makeup of the Scots Parliament as it uses PR. And the Greens are pro Independence. So I am less convinced it is a better indicator given that the two voting systems/situations are different in various other ways.
    Seeker_UK likes this.
  18. Barrymagrec

    Barrymagrec pfm Member

    Gibralter and the Falklands.
  19. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    The figures are a matter record. I’ve posted them before but I don’t now have the links to hand, however, numbers in the electorate and the number of votes cast per party for a GE is easy to find. Do you dispute the figures? If so, please post a credible source to what you consider the correct figures should mine be wrong.

    The Scots Parliament is not the topic.

    The mystery is why a majority for remain in Scotland is cited as a valid reason for Scotland to be in the EU while at the same time a majority for leave across the UK is not seen as a valid reason to leave. It’s not really a mystery, tbh.
  20. tuga

    tuga Legal Alien

    It's making stuff up to support your stance, that's what it is. A bit like Brexit...

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