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Roger Waters

Cheese said:
The 'many people' I mean are those who can't play any sort of role in the matter. Those who can don't need an emotionally unstable and aging musician, who isn't taken very seriously anyway, to tell them what to do.
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As a contributing member of a Hi-Fi/music forum, is 'emotionally unstable' your official clinical diagnosis of RW?

A fair number of dodgy and deceitful politicos and media hawks are taking RW seriously enough to do their best to slander/discredit/silence him. It's worth considering why they're going to so much trouble, and what it is they fear.

John
 
palindrome said:
As a contributing member of a Hi-Fi/music forum, is 'emotionally unstable' your official clinical diagnosis of RW?
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I don't consider myself a credible voice when it comes to global politics. Even far less credible than RW. That's why I limit myself to this place, to limit the damage sort of.
 
Cheese said:
I don't consider myself a credible voice when it comes to global politics. Even far less credible than RW. That's why I limit myself to this place, to limit the damage sort of.
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Yeah, I see wot you did there @Cheese. You're such a card sometimes. . . ;)

John
 
Difficult to say "he is an anti-Semite" or "he is not an anti-Semite. One would have to define anti-Semitism, which is not easy. As far as I'm concerned he can think and say what he likes. But the combination of Nazi-style dressing up and inflatable pigs with a Star of David on them is pretty disturbing. I can see that Manchester, which has a sizeable Jewish community, would find this unacceptable. And it should even if it did not have a single Jew. How would people react to an inflatable pig with a picture of Mohhamed digging into a pork chop go over?
The curious, and clever, thing is that the whole Jewish conspiracy thing is sort of self-generating. He is accused of anti-Semitism, therefore it is a plot by the "far-right" media, the US State department, Bibi Netanyahu and the Mossad to "cancel" him because he is a lone voice revealing The Truth about Israel to the world. (Not to mention The Truth about Putin and the war in Ukraine.) So there is the proof that The Jews are controlling the media and everything else in the world, and Waters is the only man brave enough to break that conspiracy.

But he would make a great dictator, with his combination of ego, self-importance and paranoia.
 
PaulMB said:
Difficult to say "he is an anti-Semite" or "he is not an anti-Semite. One would have to define anti-Semitism, which is not easy. As far as I'm concerned he can think and say what he likes. But the combination of Nazi-style dressing up and inflatable pigs with a Star of David on them is pretty disturbing. I can see that Manchester, which has a sizeable Jewish community, would find this unacceptable. And it should even if it did not have a single Jew. How would people react to an inflatable pig with a picture of Mohhamed digging into a pork chop go over?
The curious, and clever, thing is that the whole Jewish conspiracy thing is sort of self-generating. He is accused of anti-Semitism, therefore it is a plot by the "far-right" media, the US State department, Bibi Netanyahu and the Mossad to "cancel" him because he is a lone voice revealing The Truth about Israel to the world. (Not to mention The Truth about Putin and the war in Ukraine.) So there is the proof that The Jews are controlling the media and everything else in the world, and Waters is the only man brave enough to break that conspiracy.

But he would make a great dictator, with his combination of ego, self-importance and paranoia.
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This was all addressed pages back:

https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/roger-waters.276949/page-8#post-5014279

Please educate yourself before spreading more smears, lies and disinformation.

As an aside, it's a bit rich to suggest Waters is paranoid about Israel when the literal Israeli government Twitter account was instrumental in amplifying lies and smears about him:

https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1661272469238435840
 
PaulMB said:
But the combination of Nazi-style dressing up and inflatable pigs with a Star of David on them is pretty disturbing. I can see that Manchester, which has a sizeable Jewish community, would find this unacceptable.
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The “Nazi-style dressing up” has been part of The Wall since whenever it was first performed, the lyrics since it was released in 1979. The Star of David was one of many religious and corporate symbols and appeared on the inflatable pig way back in 2013. After complaints Waters apologised and removed it immediately, so we are talking about something that was all sorted out a decade ago.

This is an entirely manufactured panic by right-wing and highly authoritarian politicians who are bringing in draconian methods almost daily to crush any criticism, protest or dissent. It is all part of the same thing that has brought book banning to Florida, transphobia, refugee demonisation, racist police beatings etc to much of the western world. The one person who is clearly not a fascist in this picture is Roger Waters!
 
PaulMB said:
One would have to define anti-Semitism, which is not easy.

How would people react to an inflatable pig with a picture of Mohhamed digging into a pork chop go over?
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It’s really easy. It’s an unjustified hatred of Jews based solely on the fact that they’re Jewish. He has, at no time I am aware of, expressed a dislike of Jews or repeated any anti-Semitic tropes about Jewish global control. He has made several high profile criticisms of the state of Israel as a result of their oppression of Palestinians.

But he didn’t have a picture of Mohamed eating a pork chop. Years ago he had a Star of David alongside a Muslim crescent and a Christian crucifix.
 
droodzilla said:
As an aside, it's a bit rich to suggest Waters is paranoid about Israel when the literal Israeli government Twitter account was instrumental in amplifying lies and smears about him:

https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1661272469238435840
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This, this, this. This is largely driven by the Israeli government and their acolyte organisations such as Labour Friends of Israel. And no, that’s not anti-Semitic, that’s a criticism of the Israeli government.
 
droodzilla said:
This was all addressed pages back:

https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/roger-waters.276949/page-8#post-5014279

Please educate yourself before spreading more smears, lies and disinformation.

As an aside, it's a bit rich to suggest Waters is paranoid about Israel when the literal Israeli government Twitter account was instrumental in amplifying lies and smears about him:

https://twitter.com/Israel/status/1661272469238435840
Click to expand...

Yes Sir, I will educate myself and then write things like "Roger's heart is in the right place," which I assume you meant about it all being addressed pages back. What you describe as "smears, lies and disinformation" are simply points of view that may diverge from yours. Would you like to "cancel" them?
My description of Waters' "paranoia" is that he seems to feel that there are dark forces in the world ganging up to silence him, but that he will never be silenced. I mean, please, Droodzilla, do you remember his speech at the UN security council, on Putin's invitation? Can one really take this guy seriously?
 
PaulMB said:
Yes Sir, I will educate myself and then write things like "Roger's heart is in the right place," which I assume you meant about it all being addressed pages back. What you describe as "smears, lies and disinformation" are simply points of view that may diverge from yours. Would you like to "cancel" them?
My description of Waters' "paranoia" is that he seems to feel that there are dark forces in the world ganging up to silence him, but that he will never be silenced. I mean, please, Droodzilla, do you remember his speech at the UN security council, on Putin's invitation? Can one really take this guy seriously?
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Seriusly, you're embarassing yourself now.

All the bad-faith complaints about Waters' Berlin gig have been comprehensively debunked - with hard evidence, not by personal opinions.

Or do you believe in a post-truth world f alternative facts? (yeah, two can play the bad-faith argument game).

Waters' UN speech was also discussed at length a few pages back so I'll ignore the transparent attempt at deflection at the end of your post.
 
Seeker_UK said:
Roger has his say.

A bit ranty, but I think he's entitled to be.
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I agree with most of what he says, except that it is one sided and ignores the terrorism perpetrated by a minority of Palestinians against Israelis. This should be acknowledged.
But, like Waters, it irritates me no end when the Israeli government uses false claims of antisemitism to deflect from their own appalling behavior. It's an insult to the memory of the Jews who have suffered true antisemitism back through history.
 
droodzilla said:
Seriusly, you're embarassing yourself now.

All the bad-faith complaints about Waters' Berlin gig have been comprehensively debunked - with hard evidence, not by personal opinions.

Or do you believe in a post-truth world f alternative facts? (yeah, two can play the bad-faith argument game).

Waters' UN speech was also discussed at length a few pages back so I'll ignore the transparent attempt at deflection at the end of your post.
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So you are saying that complaints regarding Waters are by definition "bad-faith." That they have been "debunked." That this is on the basis of "hard evidence." Therefore anyone who, like you, supports Waters is right and anyone who does not is wrong. The UN stuff is hardly deflection, since this thread is about Waters, but evidence that he will latch onto anything that gets his name in the papers.
 
All I’d add to what others have said is you could remove Israel from the picture altogether and this would still be happening, same goes for the whole Labour antisemitism saga. Almost wholly a domestic affair: the Labour right found a button they could press that seemed to actually do something and they hammered it, the particulars didn’t matter, could have been anything. Still doing it, why wouldn’t they, they don’t GAF about Jews or anyone else.
 
PaulMB said:
but evidence that he will latch onto anything that gets his name in the papers.
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Why on earth would that be his motivation? He was a member of one of the biggest bands on the planet for around fourteen years. At their height they were notoriously anonymous, rarely giving interviews or appearing on TV. The last album to even feature their photographs on the cover was in 1969. His status as one of the biggest rock stars of all time guarantees an extraordinary level of public interest. He sells out stadiums worldwide. The idea that he would resort to inflammatory statements merely to gain attention is ludicrous.
 
Finnegan said:
Why on earth would that be his motivation? He was a member of one of the biggest bands on the planet for around fourteen years. At their height they were notoriously anonymous, rarely giving interviews or appearing on TV. The last album to even feature their photographs on the cover was in 1969. His status as one of the biggest rock stars of all time guarantees an extraordinary level of public interest. He sells out stadiums worldwide. The idea that he would resort to inflammatory statements merely to gain attention is ludicrous.
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Well, I hope you are right and I am wrong. But there is a fairly common phenomenon of people who have been extremely successful in one field, with thousands hanging from their every word, who at a certain point in their lives "discover," either consciously or unconsciously, that they have a kind of gift of universal wisdom and can pontificate on any subject and millions will listen. Not really their fault. Examples might be Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Madonna. Even Einstein was always being interviewed about all sorts of things outside the realm of physics. What strikes me in Waters, particularly in the video posted upthread, is an undercurrent of tension and anger, and a withering dismissal of all viewpoints except his own. But perhaps, as Droodzilla suggests, his heart is basically in the right place.
 
PaulMB said:
So you are saying that complaints regarding Waters are by definition "bad-faith." That they have been "debunked." That this is on the basis of "hard evidence." Therefore anyone who, like you, supports Waters is right and anyone who does not is wrong. The UN stuff is hardly deflection, since this thread is about Waters, but evidence that he will latch onto anything that gets his name in the papers.
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No I’m not saying any of that. But you already know that.
 
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