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Roger Waters

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Big Tabs, Feb 9, 2023.

  1. Big Tabs

    Big Tabs looking backwards, going forwards

  2. PaulMB

    PaulMB pfm Member

    I'm amazed the UN, which is supposed to be a serious body, even bothers to listen to Waters. Who is he?
    JonR and julifriend like this.
  3. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    He's an arse. No more relevant than my pissed mate trying to tell me what was wrong with the food industry and how I'm talking bolox. No, I'm not, this is my job, I know it well. It's not just a bit of my job, it's one of the central planks and you really are telling Elton John how to play a piano.
  4. Cheese

    Cheese Bitter lover

    I guess we are sort of used to RW's sometimes strange behaviour. The only people he might influence are old farts like us, so nothing to worry about really.
  5. Big Tabs

    Big Tabs looking backwards, going forwards

    TheDecameron likes this.
  6. paulfromcamden

    paulfromcamden Baffled

    TBH I think his heart is probably in the right place but, like quite a lot of men of a certain age, he's been fighting the good fight for so long that he's absolutely certain he's right about everything, everything is black and white, good against evil, and he sees no reason to listen to anyone else who challenges his worldview. With the result that he get's it spectacularly wrong. I think 'a useful idiot' is probably about right.
    JonR, foxwelljsly, sean99 and 3 others like this.
  7. Finnegan

    Finnegan pfm Member

    I think he just has an absolutely massive ego that gives him a huge sense of self-belief. A real asset when set to the service of producing some great albums (even if it irrevocably damaged inter-band relationships) and calling out Israeli oppression of Palestinians.

    He likely saw the UN Security Council gig as attracting huge kudos to his aspirant stature of statesman, and was blinded to the foolishness of accepting Russian largesse. The real shame is this is now going to be used as a large stick with which to beat him and to attempt to discredit all the very useful things he has previously said.
    wacko likes this.
  8. Gerard124

    Gerard124 Tempus fugit, memento mori

  9. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    I’m sure it would be possible to draw a fascinating Venn diagram between fringe-nutter-left and fringe-nutter-right. There looks to be considerable overlap between the likes of Roger Waters, George Galloway, Alex Jones, Nigel Farage, Steve Bannon, MTG, QAnon etc.
  10. madmike

    madmike I feel much better now, I really do...

    Polly was right....
    JonR and julifriend like this.
  11. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    He’s another rock n roll professional suicide along with Covid conspiracy twits Van Morrison and Slow Brain. Better to keep their mouths shut and be thought a fool than provide generous confirmation.

    Old Roger has taken the walk-on part of useful idiot provided by Putin’s UN team. He is of course entitled to his opinions about the US- Russian history of mutual skulduggery but not now Roger, not while your hosts are raping, looting and murdering hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians in their own country. You really are a stupid, stupid old has-been.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2023
    JonR, sean99, Darmok and 5 others like this.
  12. gintonic

    gintonic 50 shades of grey pussy cats

    don't need a Venn diagram, a Möbius strip will do it - far left and far right extremists will always meet around the back
    MikeMA, martin clark, Rob998 and 2 others like this.
  13. I know quite a few men of the generation before mine (I’m 55) who behave completely rationally but have a subject that ‘sets them off’ and they become completely irrational over. Climate change is one and issues around sexuality is another. They’re all well meaning.

    Cheers BB
  14. awkwardbydesign

    awkwardbydesign Officially Awesome

    It might be worth bearing in mind that they (and I am of that age group) grew up when sexual mores were very different. Male homosexuality, for one example, was immoral and illegal, and marital rape was no crime. Gender self identification wasn't even a thing! You are frequently set* into a pattern that is hard to overcome. I wonder if you will "move with the times" when it swings back, or will you continue to believe that what you grew up with is the only truth?
    And before you try to lump me in with any group, I spent several years in Earls Court, lived in a gay house, shared a room with a gay man and went to gay clubs. No, I'm not gay.
    * As the Jesuits famously said "Give me the child for the first seven years and I'll give you the man". Boys, obviously, I don't think they bothered with girls.
    VanDerGraaf and MikeMA like this.
  15. PaulMB

    PaulMB pfm Member

    I wish one could send Polly Samson a bunch of flowers.
    JonR likes this.
  16. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr neither here nor there

    He's obviously on the wrong side of the argument on Russia, but I have some sympathy for his position on Israel. At the risk of reigniting old fires on here, being a vocal critic of the state of Israel, and the atrocities committed by Israelis against Palestinians, is not antisemitic. I think we'd established that. And from what that Guardian piece says, that's Waters' position.
    rbrown, martin clark, wacko and 2 others like this.
  17. Chefren

    Chefren pfm Member

    It's because fascism doesn't fit in with the traditional left/right dichotomy, and is more syncretic.

    Fascism is for example collectivist (the state should control the economy*), which is not at all a typical right-wing position. There is "us and them", not defined by class (workers vs. capitalists) but something else (race in Nazi Germany, religion and nationality in Fascist Italy etc.). It also tries to resolve the class struggle, by making it irrelevant rather than by shifting power towards the working class. Since it has positioned itself as a direct competitor to the left, it can work with the right but not with the left. And since it is populist in nature, it needs easy solutions to complex problems, which democracy does not provide, so that has to go too.

    So it's not very surprising that sometimes its difficult to tell them apart. However in many things like social values, the left and fascists are polar opposites.

    *) Example: Trump "ordering" US companies to move production from China to the US. Under fascism the captialists would have complied or fallen out of windows.
    Yank and Tony L like this.
  18. It was more observation than criticism. The world is changing quickly, I find myself asking my children to explain certain things to me. I’m hoping my mind remains open to change.

    Cheers BB
    graystoke4 likes this.
  19. awkwardbydesign

    awkwardbydesign Officially Awesome

    Depends on the children! My 51 year old daughter thinks that only white people can be racist.
  20. Tony L

    Tony L Administrator

    Blimey, how old are you?! Once you get beyond the state persecution of folk like Alan Turing, i.e. the WWII generation and before, few of whom are still with us, things became exponentially more liberal. Most ‘old’ people today are the ‘flower power’ generation and the real drivers of the civil rights movement.

    I was born a little later in the first half of the 1960s and therefore grew up in the ‘70s. As an electronica geek I was always aware of Wendy Carlos, my childhood and early-teen years were framed with the gender-fluidity of Bolan, Bowie, Roxy Music, Lou Reed etc etc, and today I’d make a strong case that there should be a giant statue of Sophie Wilson somewhere as she (along with Steve Furber) quite literally changed the world we all live in today.

    I’m obviously a music fan. My whole political world stems from a truly obsessive interest in music and the arts. As such as a now 59 year old I’ve never questioned the idea of LGBTQ+ rights. It has always been there in my life. Images on the covers of my LPs and words I didn’t understand as a young child, but they diffused any potential for future prejudice. As such I never had anything to rebel against, I always knew which was the right side of this argument.

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