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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+6)?

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Given the projected impact on GDP, sterling, tax receipts, employment, health and social care (less taxation receipts, less government expenditure), education etc etc - and therefore essentially more poor people and in some cases people dying earlier: at what point does promoting Brexit become treason? If (say) a terrorist bombing campaign or internet attack had even a small amount of this impact, wouldn't we hold any supporters of the terrorists to account for their actions?

Or would we allow the supporters to make millions shorting the markets?

Of course Brexit may have been helped along by Putin financially supporting Aaron Banks as well. Except he only had one very boozy, no - sorry two... ...gosh darn it SIXTEEN meetings with the Russians. Quite accidentally. Nothing to see here.

Hmmmm.
 
Well, it might not turn out like that. We could have the vassal state option with less economic impact and a civil war started by Mogg, Banks, Farage and Co. Quite a few more MPs will get shot in the face or run over with white vans.
 
rbrown said:
That’s very interesting. I hope Corbyn has the sense to capitalise on this and pounce.
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Indeed. He'd be thick not to.
(Not to use the word thick pejoratively, or in a way that might seem disparaging to tory brexit voters).
"A decision can be democratic and it can be irreversible, but it cannot be both." Love it.
 
@wyjsar

I think the burden of evidence is on Seeker since he made the claim. But Corbyn was asked how much he was in favour of remaining in the EU on The Last Leg a while back and he gave it 7/10.

I think Corbyn is most in favour of watching the Tories destroy themselves over a complete mess they could never resolve.
 
rbrown said:
@wyjsar

I think the burden of evidence is on Seeker since he made the claim. But Corbyn was asked how much in favour of remaining in the EU on The Last Leg a while back and he gave it 7/10.
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https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/oliver-huitson/jeremy-corbyn-eu_b_9689982.html

(He) voted against the Maastricht Treaty in 1993
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http://uk.businessinsider.com/jerem...s-all-the-times-he-said-the-eu-was-bad-2016-4

He voted in favour of leaving the European Economic Community in 1975
He voted against the Lisbon Treaty
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It would appear he had a Damascene conversion and lost his euroscepticism the day he became leader.

At the moment it's Win Win Win for him: He can appear to be pro-EU whilst he gets what he wants - UK leaves EU, he can blame the Tories for it and he can sit back whilst the Tories tear themselves to bits in the process.
 
It might be all of the above, for example: -

a Evidence suggests that many labour voters voted Brexit, pick a side and you upset someone
b You can hide behind the referendum to vote with the government - will of the people
c It also hides your desire to have Brexit so you can nationalise things
d Whilst the Conservatives tear themselves apart you just have to have Labour themselves apart less

Of course if a and b start to erode then that will cause a problem.
 
rbrown said:
@wyjsar

I think the burden of evidence is on Seeker since he made the claim. But Corbyn was asked how much in favour of remaining in the EU on The Last Leg a while back and he gave it 7/10.

I think Corbyn was in favour of watching the Tories destroy themselves over a complete mess they could never resolve.
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Agreed - especially the last sentence.

That said, this new study looks very interesting and might be the first clear evidence of a shift in public opinion Labour needs to justify a change of tack. I'd like to see the full report to understand the methodology, and any assumptions made. I hope and expect Labour Party strategists will do the same.
 
Seeker_UK said:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/oliver-huitson/jeremy-corbyn-eu_b_9689982.html



http://uk.businessinsider.com/jerem...s-all-the-times-he-said-the-eu-was-bad-2016-4



It would appear he had a Damascene conversion and lost his euroscepticism the day he became leader.

At the moment it's Win Win Win for him: He can appear to be pro-EU whilst he gets what he wants - UK leaves EU, he can blame the Tories for it and he can sit back whilst the Tories tear themselves to bits in the process.
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There's no doubt he has a history of scepticism when it comes to the EU. He claims he got on board the Remain train (albeit less than wholeheartedly) when he was urged to do so by other parties in the left-wing block of the European Parliament. It might simply be one of those issues he felt he had to compromise on when he assumed the responsibility of leading the party.
 
Ok so his position has been inconsistent. I still maintain that if he’s got any sense and wants a shot at winning the next election, he’ll come down against Brexit and support a second referendum.
 
droodzilla said:
It might simply be one of those issues he felt he had to compromise on when he assumed the responsibility of leading the party.
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I don't think he compromised - it's not in his makeup - he just chose to keep it quiet.

Of course, the fact that the UK is on its way out (something he's always wanted) means he can keep schtum. However, if the Graun article is on the money, his party may get their way and he may be forced to trying to negotiate with the EU if he becomes PM.
 
Seeker_UK said:
I don't think he compromised - it's not in his makeup - he just chose to keep it quiet.

Of course, the fact that the UK is on its way out (something he's always wanted) means he can keep schtum. However, if the Graun article is on the money, his party may get their way and he may be forced to trying to negotiate with the EU if he becomes PM.
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I've no idea if he's genuinely softened his position or if he's simply keeping quiet for the sake of party unity (ha ha!) but, in the circumstances, I'd say choosing to keep quiet is itself a form of compromise.

It might be interesting to compare this with Trident renewal. Corbyn keeps pretty quiet about it these days but I'm sure he'd find it hard to conceal his opposition to it if he were put on the spot.
 
droodzilla said:
It might be interesting to compare this with Trident renewal. Corbyn keeps pretty quiet about it these days but I'm sure he'd find it hard to conceal his opposition to it if he were put on the spot.
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Don't worry, it will make an appearance in the run up to the next GE. ;)
 
Guardian quoted an EU official saying Corbyn needs to get an heart attack AND … AND … AND befor political situation could change. IOW don't hold your breath. But what do EU officials know.
 
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