Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+16)?

[gassor]

Come come, when I took O level physics the paper included a question on valve theory - not that we`d studied it.

Valve theory is easy, you just go with the flow.

(Yes, I know that's scraping the barrel!)

 

[Konteebos]

With Jess Philips just now we saw genuine human desperation. A desperate plea to get May to actually answer a question. May's non-answer showed the black hole in all its gaping darkness. I think May can barely function outside of the Commons, a place where she alone feels comfortable and plays out a part that has now enveloped her completely.

Another insight from this week:

"With May, it was different. She didn’t answer questions or make small talk, or big talk. She is present only in that she makes you feel her pain. Social interaction appears torturous for her, and so it is for all around her. Dancing, snooker, her endlessly repeating what we know are lies, walking into meetings where everyone despises her. I used to feel a bit sorry for her. But that lunch, when I stared into the abyss and saw someone who has no need to make anyone else feel at ease, made me understand she is a dangerous, power-crazed maniac. The dullness is a cover. That’s all."

It certainly matches what Matthew Parris said about her:
"Time and again my informants — MPs, former MPs, civil servants, special advisers — tell me, eyes flashing, that I’ve got it wrong and the public have it wrong, and she’s so much worse than that. She’s not normal. She’s extraordinary. Extraordinarily uncommunicative; extraordinarily rude in the way she blanks people, ideas and arguments. To my surprise there is no difference between the pictures of her that Remainers and Brexiteers paint.

Theresa May, they tell me (in a couple of cases actually shouting) is the Death Star of modern British politics. She’s the theory of anti-matter, made flesh. She’s a political black hole because nothing, not even light, can escape. Ideas, beliefs, suggestions, objections, inquiries, proposals, projects, loyalties, affections, trust, whole careers, real men and women, are sucked into the awful void that is Downing Street — and nothing ever comes out: no answers, only a blank so blank that it screams. Reputations (they lament) are staked on her, and lost. Warnings are delivered to her, and ignored. Plans are run by her, unacknowledged. Messages are sent to her, unanswered. She has become the unperson of Downing Street: the living embodiment of the closed door."

 

[stephen bennett]

This is why Phil Wilson and Peter Kyle's idea is probably the best we can do to avoid no deal.

It's not a great outcome, but none are.

Stephen

 

[zarniwoop]

It certainly matches what Matthew Parris said about her:
"Time and again my informants — MPs, former MPs, civil servants, special advisers — tell me, eyes flashing, that I’ve got it wrong and the public have it wrong, and she’s so much worse than that. She’s not normal. She’s extraordinary. Extraordinarily uncommunicative; extraordinarily rude in the way she blanks people, ideas and arguments. To my surprise there is no difference between the pictures of her that Remainers and Brexiteers paint.

Theresa May, they tell me (in a couple of cases actually shouting) is the Death Star of modern British politics. She’s the theory of anti-matter, made flesh. She’s a political black hole because nothing, not even light, can escape. Ideas, beliefs, suggestions, objections, inquiries, proposals, projects, loyalties, affections, trust, whole careers, real men and women, are sucked into the awful void that is Downing Street — and nothing ever comes out: no answers, only a blank so blank that it screams. Reputations (they lament) are staked on her, and lost. Warnings are delivered to her, and ignored. Plans are run by her, unacknowledged. Messages are sent to her, unanswered. She has become the unperson of Downing Street: the living embodiment of the closed door."

So how come they didn't notice any of this before she became PM? Surely those traits would have been evident in previous government roles?

 

[TheDecameron]

From the New York Times (https://nyti.ms/2SsfT1h)

"What Goes On in Those Brexit Talks in Brussels? ‘Nothing,’ Document Says

Each mission has ended without a deal, or even a hint of progress, leaving baffled observers to wonder what, exactly, Mrs. May and European officials talk about in these get-togethers. Now, a confidential document summarizing a Feb. 7 meeting from the European side has offered up an answer: “Nothing.”"

What a dog and pony show.

At least she kicks up dust. DD was brazen about it- leaving after half an hour with nothing in his briefcase apart from The Spectator and a packet of extra strong mints. She’s proven herself to be just as incompetent though. She’s actually threatening a sharper cliff edge if there’s a short delay granted. The debate in Parliament is sounding increasingly like the last 20 min of Abigail’s Party.

 

[Nick_G]

At least she kicks up dust. DD was brazen about it- leaving after half an hour with nothing in his briefcase apart from The Spectator and a packet of extra strong mints. She’s proven herself to be just as incompetent though.

I imagine he needed those extra strong mints to cover up the taste of desperation.

 

[TheDecameron]

I think it’s “shy Tory” season on pfm again.

 

[Tony L]

So how come they didn't notice any of this before she became PM? Surely those traits would have been evident in previous government roles?

She was a truly awful Home Secretary and all the ignorance, delusion, intransigence etc was evident (Windrush, her attitude to internet censorship etc). She is a fundamentally nasty piece of work IMHO. Small-minded, unimaginative and incapable of seeing beyond her immediate ideology and prejudice.

 

[TheDecameron]

And the whole Tory Party are hiding behind her- they don’t have the balls to get rid of her. That is, until the time is right for the human sacrifice.

 

[matthewr]

Well, Corbyn said the EU was receptive to his proposals. But as they stand, they still include a new customs union that the EU won’t countenance. Matthewr might well be right that Labour will shift to Norway+, (who am I to argue with him?) but Corbyn was still talking in terms of “access to the single market” and I honestly can’t tell if he’s being disingenuous or just clueless.

Labour's plans for a Brexit deal have always been nearly as far fetched as May's essentially by avoiding the problems and contradictions by including things the EU would never agree to (SU with trade deals, SM benefits without FoM, both these with no hard border in NI). The difference though is that everyone knows Labour are just pretending this is what they would negotiate for political reasons and if, in the unlikely event, of a Labour government negotiating with the EU then Labour would either change tack to Norway+ or face the same No Deal vs Not the Deal We Want problem May has. Cobryn's Labour are many things but they are definitely not so stupid or ill-informed to not know this; it's just part of the constructive ambiguity thing because there is a 90% chance they will never have to actually do it.

In practice, as I said above, I think there would be some negotiation and an appropriate fig leaf concession to Corbyn that allowed everyone to save face. Nobody would be fooled but I don't think many would really care and a Norway+ deal would be acceptable to most Leavers as the best way to solve the problem with minimal damage.

 

[wacko]

So how come they didn't notice any of this before she became PM? Surely those traits would have been evident in previous government roles?

It was anybody but Boris choice wasn't it ?

 

[Barrymagrec]

It was anybody but Boris choice wasn't it ?

Boris didn`t actually put himself forward after Gove knifed him in the back but when you look at the others who did.........

 

[rbrown]

I've not seen that figure before. Do you have a source? The natural assumption is that non-voters split 52-48 in favour of Leave, as in the referendum result.

Source was John Curtice on R4. Thanks to someone in a later reply who reminded me.

 

[wacko]

Boris didn`t actually put himself forward after Gove knifed him in the back but when you look at the others who did.........

True. I've a sort PTSD memory blank of that period.

 

[droodzilla]

Source was John Curtice on R4. Thanks to someone in a later reply who reminded me.

OK, thanks. I'm not convinced but it's a side issue, so I won't pursue it. The only thing that really matters now is the polling and whether it shows a significant, stable lead for one side or the other.

 

[HarryB]

It certainly matches what Matthew Parris said about her:
"Time and again my informants — MPs, former MPs, civil servants, special advisers — tell me, eyes flashing, that I’ve got it wrong and the public have it wrong, and she’s so much worse than that. She’s not normal. She’s extraordinary. Extraordinarily uncommunicative; extraordinarily rude in the way she blanks people, ideas and arguments. To my surprise there is no difference between the pictures of her that Remainers and Brexiteers paint.

Theresa May, they tell me (in a couple of cases actually shouting) is the Death Star of modern British politics. She’s the theory of anti-matter, made flesh. She’s a political black hole because nothing, not even light, can escape. Ideas, beliefs, suggestions, objections, inquiries, proposals, projects, loyalties, affections, trust, whole careers, real men and women, are sucked into the awful void that is Downing Street — and nothing ever comes out: no answers, only a blank so blank that it screams. Reputations (they lament) are staked on her, and lost. Warnings are delivered to her, and ignored. Plans are run by her, unacknowledged. Messages are sent to her, unanswered. She has become the unperson of Downing Street: the living embodiment of the closed door."

That is absolutely frightening. How in God's name have we ended up with this freak as PM? Why are the Tories too gutless and concerned about their own careers to do something about her?

 

[stephen bennett]

OK, thanks. I'm not convinced but it's a side issue, so I won't pursue it. The only thing that really matters now is the polling and whether it shows a significant, stable lead for one side or the other.

That’s why the vote should be a binding binary confirmation. May’s deal or remain. I.e. the only possible way of leaving without immense damage vs the status quo. No more unicorns. A single stark choice.

Then we can move on.

Stephen

 

[clifftaylor]

Why are the Tories too gutless and concerned about their own careers to do something about her?

LOL

 

[richardg]

At least she kicks up dust. DD was brazen about it- leaving after half an hour with nothing in his briefcase apart from The Spectator and a packet of extra strong mints. She’s proven herself to be just as incompetent though. She’s actually threatening a sharper cliff edge if there’s a short delay granted. The debate in Parliament is sounding increasingly like the last 20 min of Abigail’s Party.

Thing is, everyone laughs at May and DD for not making any progress. But they were not the only twats in the room, were they?

 

[stephen bennett]

Thing is, everyone laughs at May and DD for not making any progress. But they were not the only twats in the room, were they?

Were Fox, Johnson and Hunt there too?

Stephen