Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+16)?

[TheDecameron]

I was taken in by this until he got to “no deal is bad for the EU - the Germans want to sell their cars...” at which point I realized it was an elaborate joke by the BBC.

It’s bad for everyone (the repercussions would be global), everyone except a substantial group of Tory backbenchers which includes a number of ex- cabinet ministers who have an interest in it happening.

 

[TheDecameron]

Labour were responsible for the most of the world going into recession in 2008?....er.....

Just Gordon Brown.

 

[MikeMA]

They’ve left the hapless Education Minister Damien Hinds to explain the omnishambles on R4 this morning while May is treading water in Sharm El Sheikh as an excuse to run the clock down further. He said “there’s a good deal(May’s) on the table already”. The interviewer was left to remind him it was defeated by the greatest parliamentary majority in history to which he replied “yes, but there was only a tiny bit of it they didn’t like”.
I wasn’t previously aware of Damien Hinds possibly because he went on to reveal himself to be yet another low key incompetent. It’s the only type left to appoint to Cabinet- inexperienced, incompetent and very grateful to the Prime Minister.

Damien Hinds seemed reluctant to be drawn on the government's intention to set up a Brexit hardship fund. I wonder why?

 

[droodzilla]

I'll wait for Drood's follow-up, thanks. Oh, he cannot be arsed. Those on the hard left can't really add value to the argument. Actually not at all.

Mainstream economics is hardly “hard left”. Post the OECD analysis and explain how it supports your claim.

 

[zarniwoop]

Gordon Brown.

Great Stranglers song

 

[richardg]

Labour were responsible for the most of the world going into recession in 2008?....er.....

Wow, you lot really do want to make diversions around what people say if you think you are not in line with their thinking. You're like the press. In my sentence that you quote,where did I say global recession?

 

[richardg]

Whatever Labour did prior to 2008 pales next to the *active mistake* that the Cameron governments made from 2010. It's literally one of the top 3 economic mistakes by a UK government since the war.

Completely agree. It is very important to me that everyone here understands this; when I attack what Labour have done, I am not in any way suggesting the Tories came in to clean up the mess. I know they did not, in fact they have made an even bigger mess. So it is really not necessary to even mention the Tories when I say Labour own the recession because of what they did or did not do in their 11 years before 2008. I know the Tories also own the recession due to what they did after 2010.

 

[matthewr]

Completely agree. It is very important to me that everyone here understands this; when I attack what Labour have done, I am not in any way suggesting the Tories came in to clean up the mess. I know they did not, in fact they have made an even bigger mess. So it is really not necessary to even mention the Tories when I say Labour own the recession because of what they did or did not do in their 11 years before 2008. I know the Tories also own the recession due to what they did after 2010.

But that's like saying Italy own WWII and then objecting when people say they think it was more about Germany.

 

[richardg]

Mainstream economics is hardly “hard left”. Post the OECD analysis and explain how it supports your claim.

I refer to Mullardman, not mainstream economics.

People seem to easily misinterpret my admittedly poorly constructed sentences in a way that always ends up in disagreement with my every point! I must try harder to be more precise in my points.

I agree with nearly everything that everyone says on here about nearly everything. But what is the point in an echo-chamber agreement thread. You all do plenty of that yourselves. It is more interesting to join in when you disagree, surely?

I will dig out the OECD data later....if I can be arsed. But I am sure it exists...I think?!

 

[richardg]

But that's like saying Italy own WWII and then objecting when people say they think it was more about Germany.

Not really. You're fine to say it was more about Germany, but don't say the Italians don't own it either.

 

[richardg]

Just Gordon Brown.

Well, actually, this is exactly it, isn't it? I should rephrase. I'd like to say that it is still Labour's fault (Blair), but as I understand it, the party was never invited to discuss his ideas. It seems he was such a hideous, bad-tempered bully, nobody dared challenge him. It really is Brown that owns it.

 

[maxflinn]

The 08 crash was born in the USA. There, due to the lobbying of the banks the rules designed to prevent such a crash were eroded (read relaxed by bought politicians) away over decades, to the point where giant US banks were disastrously over-leveraged, and when their greed saw them offer mortgages to millions of (mostly black, and mostly poor) Americans who ordinarily would not meet sensible lending criteria, only to package them up as A-rated commodities and flood the system with them: the lethal injection was given.

The UK banking sector just went along for the ride really, but they were inextricably linked, and the poison spread there, and everywhere else in the West.

That's my understanding anyway. I don't think any UK government could have done that much to protect Britain, at least before the crash.

Lots could be done now, though, in Britain, to prevent a similar situation, as the rules are again being relaxed in the US, but the Tories haven't, and aren't going to do it.

They prefer to target the poor, not the bankers.

 

[TheDecameron]

Well, actually, this is exactly it, isn't it? I should rephrase. I'd like to say that it is still Labour's fault (Blair), but as I understand it, the party was never invited to discuss his ideas. It seems he was such a hideous, bad-tempered bully, nobody dared challenge him. It really is Brown that owns it.

You eventually got to where you were intending to go.

 

[richardg]

You eventually got to where you were intending to go.

Thanks, I feel much better for that.

 

[richardg]

Lots could be done now, though, in Britain, to prevent a similar situation, as the rules are again being relaxed in the US, but the Tories haven't, and aren't going to do it.

You made my point. Following 20 years of easy regulation and access to the markets by the tories, Labour had 11 years to tighten things up. But they did not. 'Drunk at the wheel' it says here, written by a man that Brown trusted.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-32549892

 

[Darmok]

You made my point. Following 20 years of easy regulation and access to the markets by the tories, Labour had 11 years to tighten things up. But they did not. 'Drunk at the wheel' it says here, written by a man that Brown trusted.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-32549892

Yes but the tories voted for everything broon proposed re de-regulation and even insisted broon to go further.

How can you arrive at your prospective?

Please, do tell.

 

[Darmok]

You made my point. Following 20 years of easy regulation and access to the markets by the tories, Labour had 11 years to tighten things up. But they did not. 'Drunk at the wheel' it says here, written by a man that Brown trusted.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-32549892

Yes, but the tories voted for everything broon proposed re de-regulation and even insist broon to go further.

How can you arrive at your prospective?

Please, do tell.

 

[notaclue]

A sane politician speaks...

"Tony Connelly‏Verified account @tconnellyRTE
Taoiseach Leo Varadkar says he is "confident", or has the "sense" at least, that the UK will not crash out of the EU at the end of March. "We’ll either have a deal or an extension."
10:59 AM - 25 Feb 2019"

It seems we are likely to find out fairly soon if our leader is as sane.

I believe the number of times that she has assured the Commons that we are definitely leaving on March 29 now stands at over one hundred.

So she will have some explaining to do is she does agree to an extension. If she does, I wonder if a British politician has ever lied about anything as much as May has lied about Brexit? Probably not, I'd have thought.

 

[Mullardman]

I'll wait for Drood's follow-up, thanks. Oh, he cannot be arsed. Those on the hard left can't really add value to the argument. Actually not at all.

Who's hard left?

That's simply not true. Labour responded *correctly* to the recession using mainstream economic theory. This recovery was then cut off by the Conservative government with their turn to austerity. This is very clear in the data and is widely accepted outside of political circles and the popular press.

You are also wrong about Germany which was wrong about everything policy wise and mostly recovered because of how the Euro works in respect to its export economy.

Indeed, Brown was internationally praised for his handling of the recession which occurred for reasons beyond his control. The UK economy was in recovery when the press/media and Tory liars just scraped into power on the back of the useless Lib Dems and proceeded to make things much worse.

They own the 2008 recession because of what they did and did not do before it, not after.

Simply not true. AKA Bollocks.

Completely agree. It is very important to me that everyone here understands this; when I attack what Labour have done, I am not in any way suggesting the Tories came in to clean up the mess. I know they did not, in fact they have made an even bigger mess. So it is really not necessary to even mention the Tories when I say Labour own the recession because of what they did or did not do in their 11 years before 2008. I know the Tories also own the recession due to what they did after 2010.

Wriggle

I refer to Mullardman, not mainstream economics.

People seem to easily misinterpret my admittedly poorly constructed sentences in a way that always ends up in disagreement with my every point! I must try harder to be more precise in my points.

I agree with nearly everything that everyone says on here about nearly everything. But what is the point in an echo-chamber agreement thread. You all do plenty of that yourselves. It is more interesting to join in when you disagree, surely?

I will dig out the OECD data later....if I can be arsed. But I am sure it exists...I think?!

So you agree with nearly everything etc... except with me, when I call you on a load of bollocks?

 

[richardg]

Who's hard left?



Indeed, Brown was internationally praised for his handling of the recession which occurred for reasons beyond his control. The UK economy was in recovery when the press/media and Tory liars just scraped into power on the back of the useless Lib Dems and proceeded to make things much worse.



Simply not true. AKA Bollocks.



Wriggle


So you agree with nearly everything etc... except with me, when I call you on a load of bollocks?

Sorry, not hard left, but everything is left for you. It's this kind of attitude where only left or right is good that keeps getting us into this mess...rofl.