ff1d1l
pfm Member
Mrs ff1d1l is for passport/moving there if it goes through. As I did final few years of school and have highers/C 6th yr studies imagine it would be a goer.
Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+11)?
- Thread starter Colin L
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Barrymagrec
pfm Member
Not sure what Verhofstad has to do with it and are you seriously saying that Sturgeon is worse than the bunch of *&%kwits that have got us into the current hopeless situation?
The midges are a pain though.
ff1d1l
pfm Member
Perhaps they could GE a strain attracted by gammon pheromones and they'd all fly south....
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
Leaders should lead. Opposition should oppose, etc. The real opposition to Brexit is not coming from Corbyn, McDonnell et alia. Credit to Starmer for keeping the party nominally in the game.
Labour's leaders are being dragged kicking and screaming towards more rational positions, but they still find time to excommunicate those that merely repeat the daft lines they were mouthing yesterday. There is nothing meticulously vague in those statements by McDonnell, even though they are mutually incompatible.
Lee T
pfm Member
I'm beginning to believe, some who voted remain, have a "block the obvious" clause wired into their brains.
A question to the remain voters here, would you be happy for this guy (Alistair Campbell, Newsnight) to convince leave voters to vote remain should another referendum be offered?
Tony L
Administrator
By your own admission you voted leave as a temper-tantrum against Cameron and the Tories. An act with the intellectual sophistication of vandalising a bus stop with a baseball bat. Have your motives become any “less obvious” with time?
Seanm
pfm Member
Vagueness is a collective effort, and an effective one: for instance, it allows you to castigate the leadership for not leading, while saying, Credit to Starmer! Forgetting that the leadership put him in charge.
I really don't know what to make of the sneering at unicorns on the one hand and the stamping of feet about politicians not being completely upfront at all times and stating exactly what they think about everything - something that has never, ever happened, let alone in such a complex situation, and never could in a parliamentary democracy. Leaders should lead! For God's sake.
Lee T
pfm Member
Nope, sorry, never stated this on any Brexit thread on any forum to date, you are free to check,. though I understand why a section of voters voted against the Cameron regime, calling this a tantrum is a little condescending, considering the issues involved, though unfortunately not surprising considering your history on such threads where you have belittled such areas of society, more than once, another who claims to support the poor, the disabled etc..then belittles when it suits the cause.
Precisely the mixed messages allured to by a few members here a few days ago.
You're not alone, it's a running theme & why, if offered another ref, many will again, tell most of you to take a leap, some will just never learn, it beggars belief, it really does.
If, after 2 years, the same old superficial social prejudice is still being banded around, then I would suggest, instead, maybe, offer good reasoning, educate, tell people why it's sensible to remain, not the usual doom & gloom of leaving, and please, stop the condescending bollocks.
Surely many here can understand why some would find Alistair Campbell's attitude abrasive on Newsnight.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Yes, he’s a highly skilled communicator, so in the context you describe he’d be excellent. Can you remind me why you voted leave initially? It’s been a while since the pre-referendum discussion was held here.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
God, no, I just don't like her politics. And she does come across smug. I always wonder what it is that makes her seem so pleased with herself. Verhofstadt - if you take the EU, he and his ilk come as the free gift. Well, not so free as it happens.
As for the Westminster lot, well, haven't got all day.
Seanm
pfm Member
I know this one! It's racism and misogyny.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
I like the use of ‘heritage’. Someone’s race and immigration background are brought into the conversation while using coyness. My question is why was their race and/or immigration background raised in the first place? It’s the lens through which ethnic nationalists see the world and everyone else in it.
Lee T
pfm Member
Old ground & if you think him the voice of reason, then do not expect good things from another ref if you have this type of condescending attitude offering reasons to remain. Highly skilled communicative skills do not in turn make for a sensible attitude, how is it sensible to rile people into voting remain, it's completely counter productive, he should put his skills to better use maybe & offer sensible argument without lowering himself into social class discrimination.
kendo
Prussian bot
One really does hope that the political leadership of a country is not representative of the rest of a country, one really does. No, really.
The midges love you 'though.
Tony L
Administrator
That is certainly the impression you have given many times in the past, though when pushed you always become evasive.
I have very little tolerance of stupidity/ignorance, and that is all I aim to attack. I have much sympathy and respect for the disabled and all those who find themselves on very low income for whatever reason. I just have sufficient grasp of reality to understand just how damaging Brexit will be to all, especially those with very little. It was clear from the very start of this debacle. It was clear well before the vote ever took place. People who lash out at entirely the wrong thing are, by definition, idiots. Such behaviour can only ever be an act of self-harm. There is no class-correlation here, gammon can be found at all price-points; Rees-Mogg, Johnson, Yaxley-Lennon, Batton etc. All arguing for something profoundly stupid that others will pay for.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
What?!
Heritage is more contextually specific than race in this instance, and you were talking about context.
And you got my reply, in context.
Lee T
pfm Member
Can you not see the disparity here.
When all else fails, when there is nowhere else to attack & Cameron offers a chance to voice how they feel, where do you think the type you call idiots, the disabled you mention, those on low income you mention are to go, no one was listening, no one gave a shit, little option but to stand up & shout, as loud as possible, desperate, yes, idiots, no. I understand why they did this, I see it, I live amongst it, it's nasty, it's degrading, it places people in a position where, thankfully, many will never find themselves & have no way of knowing how they too would react in this environment.
You see idiots, I see desperate people wanting to be heard, after venturing into every avenue possible & having the door closed in their faces at every turn, it's anger, it's frustration, it's understandable.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
I enjoy it when you accidentally let your junk hang out rather than all the distraction through pedantry and coyness. You’re a white English nationalist and it shines out of your posts even with all that self-censorship. Let your hair down a bit. It’s the weekend- you can go crazy.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
No. That is a fair point. But the idea that people voted Leave just to stick it up a few people who annoy them with no regard to the consequences for themselves and families doesn't reflect well on them either. Not smart.
Lee T
pfm Member
They didn't, but having this attitude thrust in their faces will help nothing for the future, this is my point. To convince leavers to vote remain will take a sea change in attitude when explaining any benefit of remaining in the EU.
If this place reflects the educated section of society as a whole, then some here may need to think about this. You would think that along with intelligence, comes the ability to grasp when something fails, do not repeat it, try something new.
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