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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+11)?

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Barrymagrec said:
In that event Scotland may find itself the favoured destination of youngish smarter English emigrants.
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What, for a future comprising the unbearably smug wee Nicola, the unbearably brash carpetbagger Verhofstadt, and unbearable midges?

I doubt it.
 
HarryB said:
Possibly the most arrogant, obnoxious, nasty, bullying piece of shit I ever had the misfortune to meet during my time in journalism.
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I can’t imagine an ex-Rothermere/Dacre employee such as yourself would have much in common with Alistair Campbell. Shouldn’t you have been interviewing Farage or telling us Yaxley-Lennon “wasn’t all bad” and “just saying what we all think” or something like that?
 
Ragaman said:
Well this is enough to put the Scots off another indy rev vote :D
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Plenty of them here already and I'm sure that if any prospective incomers left all string vests and obsessive craving for power in englandshire , then they'd be very welcome
 
Tony L said:
I can’t imagine an ex-Rothermere/Dacre employee such as yourself would have much in common with Alistair Campbell. Shouldn’t you have been interviewing Farage or telling us Yaxley-Lennon “wasn’t all bad” and “just saying what we all think” or something like that?
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Surely Harry is an old school Labour lefty and his dislike of Alistair Campbell would be obvious? And I can't think of many people less likely to apologise for Stephen C***tly-Racist.
 
Jim Audiomisc said:
I can't be sure, but suspect they would for various reasons.

Scotland voted 'remain' and has for a long time been a different kind of place from England. (I write this as someone who was born and spent the first half of their life in London, then 'emigrated' to Scotland.)

During the Scots IndyRef one of the key points the 'NO' side trotted out was that to stay in the EU, Scotland had to remain a part of the UK. The EU essentially confirmed this at the time. This assertion by the 'NO' becomes a falsehood now as voting 'NO' seems to condemn Scotland to *leaving* the EU *against their will*.

Previously, Spain was the main opponent of accepting the idea that Scotland could leave the UK whilst remaining in the EU. (Reason being its own internal regional problems, and wanting to send the same message to them as a deterrent.) But with the UK leaving it will no longer be an EU country, and if Scotland *does* become independent, it can be regarded as any other applicant to join.

Given all the current EU problems, I suspect they'd welcome a keen new member, particularly one that *seeks* migration from elsewhere and has a far more sympathetic view of the EU than England.

All that said, I'm not necessarily a fan of Scottish Independence (1), and I'm sure it would be contested. But recent events make me think that if the UK leaves, then there is a plausible path out of the UK and into the EU for Scotland. And it will be hard for the UK to forbid this given what is happening.

{1) I voted 'NO' last time. Mainly because I could see the peril of having to *ask* a bigger combination to 'allow' us to leave *and* that *they* would have to pass the legislation setting all the terms of the 'divorce'. A concern which the UK should have thought about wrt the EU, but simply got the magic unicorn instead with voters who assumed we 'had left' the day after the vote simply by voting.
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Lexiteer Richard Tuck reckons that independence would be much less appealing after Brexit: Scotland would be required to join the Euro, the EU would be a more integrated body, and thus independence from the UK would involve a much more significant breach than it would under current conditions. Soft unionist sentiment was obviously already strong enough to win it for No the last time: not unreasonable to expect the prospect of more intense estrangement to amplify that.

Following a Brexit, the EU would effectively be equivalent to the eurozone and the Schengen area, and would simply proceed to a much higher level of integration. It is hard to see it taking any other route, unless (as some apocalyptic scenarios imagine) it fell apart completely. Would the SNP leaders want Scotland to be subsumed into a union of that kind? Their terror of endorsing Scottish membership of the euro in the referendum campaign suggests that they would be very unwilling to exchange membership of the United Kingdom for membership of the United States of Europe; their ideal is the continuation of the present relatively unintegrated European arrangements within which something like the current Scottish economy could persist independently of Westminster. Their current enthusiasm for Britain’s continued membership reveals their own political judgment about the significance of the EU for their cause.
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https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/left-case-brexit
 
Watched Alistair Campbell on newsnight, his attitude is precisely why many voted leave in the first place, this arrogant, patronising manner helps absolutely no one & especially the remain camp, if people want Brexit cancelled, I would advise a media blackout on this guy from here on in, that is unless others here believe this is the way forward with any further remain campaign, good luck with that BTW if this guy is speaking on your behalf.
 
Seanm said:
I see you are shocked - shocked! - that a politician trying to simultaneously talk down a population holding a gun to its own head and negotiate with a crowd of ruthless card sharps would fail to speak bluntly - even stooping so low as to use alliteration! I look forward to months of this kind of poised, performative outrage from Fintan O'Toole.

Corbyn, or his writers, had one job to do here: put McCluskey's intervention to bed and set in stone support for the 2nd referendum - at the right time.
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Cute, but doesn't provide any substance on what your party would do in the unlikely event it would come to power in the near future. All too secret for the electorate at large, eh?

Corbyn has two jobs to do at the moment: to act as an opposition to the destructive policies of this government, and to demonstrate in a convincing way how his party would bring a better solution on Brexit, Europe and other matters. He his failing on both.

On a side note: one feels almost sorry for an old saurian like McCluskey, who's clearly unable to follow every twist and turn of the LP leadership's constantly shifting positions on Brexit - it is hard to keep up. Len is being berated for holding to positions that seemed to be close to party policy (it is hard to know what the actual policy was) or were at least acceptable a few months ago.

Example:
McDonnell yesterday:
The shadow chancellor said if there were a second referendum it was “inevitable” that the choice for voters would be remain versus Theresa May’s deal, adding: “And if it was, I would vote remain.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-rejects-union-warning-over-second-referendum
McDonnell two months ago:
A fresh Brexit referendum should be only about a departure deal and should not include the option of staying in the EU, John McDonnell has indicated to the dismay of Labour members pushing for a people’s vote. https://www.theguardian.com/politic...t-referendum-should-not-include-remain-option
 
HairyHaggis said:
Plenty of them here already and I'm sure that if any prospective incomers left all string vests and obsessive craving for power in englandshire , then they'd be very welcome
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I would suggest Scotland sort their drug problems before offering prejudiced social boundaries :D https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ths-in-scotland-more-than-doubles-in-10-years Ironically crime is down 38%,compared to England, where it rises steadily, if I were a Scot, I would want to stay put for sure but would be happy to take the good with the bad, it's how society works, look at maybe educating the ignorant rather than banishing them. Plenty of well educated racist drug dealing scum to go round, I know of a few close by to me, university educated low life, not all are from the lower end of society, so I would suggest, beware who you allow in, based on your criteria of social superiority.
 
eternumviti said:
Is his racial background significant in this context?

I would say that his heritage quite possibly is. He is presumably the descendent of slaves from the British colonial era, and he studied African and Oriental history. He is the MP for a poor constituency with a high proportion of people of Afro-Caribbean heritage and a history of racial confrontation and social problems. He is a member of the metropolitan left, a flagwaver for British declinism, and he seems to fully embrace the narrative of British colonialism as having been universally a blot on mankind's history. He has something of a track record of making mischief by misrepresenting history, as in 1 million Indians died in WW2 in order that there could be a European Union. He has an axe to grind, and grind it he apparently does.



And who is 'we' in that context? It certainly isn't me.

Unpalatable, certainly, but only in the context of the fact that truths they are not, home or otherwise. They are selective and mischievous misrepresentations of facts, not truths.
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Did you recycle that from The Spectator?
 
Ragaman said:
Watched Alistair Campbell on newsnight, his attitude is precisely why many voted leave in the first place, this arrogant, patronising manner helps absolutely no one & especially the remain camp, if people want Brexit cancelled, I would advise a media blackout on this guy from here on in, that is unless others here believe this is the way forward with any further remain campaign, good luck with that BTW if this guy is speaking on your behalf.
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He made you vote to make yourself poorer?
 
PsB said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...t-referendum-should-not-include-remain-option
Cute, but doesn't provide any substance on what your party would do in the unlikely event it would come to power in the near future. All too secret for the electorate at large, eh?

Corbyn has two jobs to do at the moment: to act as an opposition to the destructive policies of this government, and to demonstrate in a convincing way how his party would bring a better solution on Brexit, Europe and other matters. He his failing on both.

On a side note: one feels almost sorry for an old dinosaur like McCluskey, who's clearly unable to follow every twist and turn of the LP leadership's constantly shifting positions on Brexit - it is hard to keep up. Len is being berated for holding to positions that seemed to be close to party policy (it is hard to know what the actual policy was) or were at least acceptable a few months ago. Example:
McDonnell yesterday:
The shadow chancellor said if there were a second referendum it was “inevitable” that the choice for voters would be remain versus Theresa May’s deal, adding: “And if it was, I would vote remain.”
McDonnell two months ago:
A fresh Brexit referendum should be only about a departure deal and should not include the option of staying in the EU, John McDonnell has indicated to the dismay of Labour members pushing for a people’s vote.
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Again you are shocked - shocked! - that in a situation that clearly requires a large number of people to shift their position, parliamentary leaders are shifting theirs, having indicated that they would, and having obviously maintained a meticulously vague position so far in order that they could.

Is any of this honestly surprising and upsetting to you?

"Len" is no poor working class naif bamboozled by the manoeuvring of them city slickers in their sharp suits: he and his people are experienced players and his position reflects long-standing ambivalences in the union movement regarding freedom of movement amongst other things.
 
matthewr said:
Surely Harry is an old school Labour lefty and his dislike of Alistair Campbell would be obvious? And I can't think of many people less likely to apologise for Stephen C***tly-Racist.
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I’m just taking the pee out of a self-confessed ex-Mail “journalist”! I’m sorry, but it needs doing!
 
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