Muslim women are not allowed to wear Burka at the shore in France

[Paul R]

I haven't seen any attempt to ban the various specialist clothing worn by priests, nuns and monks

Mayor of Nice puts habits in the same category as 'burkinis'.

'Burkinis' look dangerous to use and a pure affectation. I'd have thought laughter rather than legislation would be appropriate. The issue to tackle seriously is the oppression of some Muslim women by their male dominated culture reflected in control of their movements and clothing. Whether state oppression of these women is the right response seems unlikely to me.

Paul

 

[merlin]

Paul,

how much time have you spent living with Muslims?

I'm guessing an awful lot given how you feel qualified to determine what's good and bad for Muslims.

Or is it simply that you want to force your own set of values onto another culture?

 

[ariegur]

This idea is largely irrelevant to the debate about Burkinis.

It is also just plain wrong to describe nudity as offensive. It is a very subjective and culturally dependent issue.

What I mean is that in public places were people must be like train stations, if someone will be naked he will offend many people. What do you think of parents who are naked in a kids garden event?

Arye

 

[ariegur]

I think this is an interesting comment because it shows how Israelis have become more tolerant of Muslims as some parts of the world have become less tolerant.
Israel have had more time to get used to dealing with suicide bombers than most other countries.
re the French; I don't think it's anything to do with the actual piece of clothing on the beach. I think it's the French authorities telling their population that they have had enough of Muslim violence and they are not prepared to tolerate Muslim dress.
It will be people in the street next.

The Muslims in Israel within the green line are free and equal citizens. But please, don't post contents like this of yours without getting merlin's permission first.

And BTW, regarding merlin's response to your post, Muslims weren't deported from Haifa before, during or after 1948 - but this is not the subject of this thread.

Arye

 

[Still]

'Burkinis' look dangerous to use and a pure affectation.

No more dangerous than diving skins, which are totally safe.
Use of t'burkina isn't affection for Muslim women.

I'd have thought laughter rather than legislation would be appropriate. The issue to tackle seriously is the oppression of some Muslim women by their male dominated culture reflected in control of their movements and clothing. Whether state oppression of these women is the right response seems unlikely to me.

You, like some of the French authorities, appear to have misunderstood the burkini: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-religion-burqa-designer-idUSKCN10Z27C?il=0

 

[ariegur]

Like few here I agree that it is not right to justify forbidding kind of dress because it may use criminals or because of the idea that Muslim women are forced to dress burka so by the law let's force them not.

This can be taken in a very wrong way to many areas in our lives.

Arye

 

[Paul R]

No more dangerous than diving skins, which are totally safe.

The burkinis commonly pictured are flappy and not made of a swim suit or skin suit type material. I would think they would make swimming harder, increase drag in waves, and generally be a hindrance to use in water. Happy to be wrong.

Use of t'burkina isn't affection for Muslim women.

Of course it is.

You, like some of the French authorities, appear to have misunderstood the burkini: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-religion-burqa-designer-idUSKCN10Z27C?il=0

I don't think I did. Perhaps you didn't read what I wrote?

More to your point, it doesn't matter what the originator of the item says, it's how it is used.

Paul

 

[merlin]

The Muslims in Israel within the green line are free and equal citizens. But please, don't post contents like this of yours without getting merlin's permission first.

And BTW, regarding merlin's response to your post, Muslims weren't deported from Haifa before, during or after 1948 - but this is not the subject of this thread.

Arye

No need to come on here and misrepresent others whilst spreading your propaganda Arye.

Please remove your post then I will not have to correct you until the mods do it for you.

 

[ariegur]

The burkinis commonly pictured are flappy and not made of a swim suit or skin suit type material. I would think they would make swimming harder, increase drag in waves, and generally be a hindrance to use in water. Happy to be wrong.

...

Paul

Being dresses in the sea may be a death trap.

Arye

 

[Still]

The burkinis commonly pictured are flappy and not made of a swim suit or skin suit type material. I would think they would make swimming harder, increase drag in waves, and generally be a hindrance to use in water. Happy to be wrong.

Maybe you are confusing burkas with burkinis?
I wouldn't recommend riding gnarly waves in Hawaii in a burkini, but for the use it was designed for it's safe afaik.
Can't find a single example of someone coming to harm (in the water) as a result of wearing one, let alone drowning.

Of course it is.

If you think any visible worn item with a religious connotation is an affectation fair enough.

I don't think I did. Perhaps you didn't read what I wrote?

Maybe I misunderstood.
Or to match your disposition perhaps you didn't explain yourself clearly?

More to your point, it doesn't matter what the originator of the item says, it's how it is used.

What the originator of the internet had in mind doesn't matter, it's how it's used?

You appear to fancy yourself as a liberator of muslim women.
Yet when a muslim woman's opinion differs from yours, you think you know what's best for her.
As the UK is also a male dominated culture perhaps that's not so surprising!

 

[ariegur]

Is there difference between Burka and Burkini?

The problem with cloth in the water is that cloth when absorbed with water become to be very heavy to a point that it is impossible to float. When everything is OK there is no problem, but when in distress in the sea, weight can make the difference between life and death.

Arye

 

[sean99]

IMO France got this one totally wrong. Good to see that they've overturned.

There are folks on the beaches there wearing nothing but thongs who should consider it a public service to wear a burkini instead

 

[Still]

Is there difference between Burka and Burkini?

The problem with cloth in the water is that cloth when absorbed with water become to be very heavy to a point that it is impossible to float. When everything is OK there is no problem, but when in distress in the sea, weight can make the difference between life and death.

There is a big difference, and don't fret as the Burkini is designed for the purpose.
I bet you don't do a much watersports!


Burka

Burkini

Burk(s)

 

[ariegur]

There is a big difference, and don't fret as the Burkini is designed for the purpose.
I bet you don't do a much watersports!


Burka

Burkini

Burk(s)

Well..... I must admit that I was wrong, what I see is women dressed with burkini.

I don't know what do you mean by watersports, but I spend time at the beach
mostly walking on the sand.

Any way, the Burkini may be too heavy if the woman is washed away from the beach and has to have power to keep her head above the water.

Arye

 

[Still]

What I meant by water sports was time spent in the water swimming, snorkelling, etc., otherwise you'd appreciate why a burkini isn't a threat to users.
It's designed for the purpose, so why do you think it would be made of an inappropriate material?
You wouldn't worry about what a wet suit is made of, would you?

 

[ariegur]

What I meant by waterspouts was time spent in the water swimming, snorkelling, etc., otherwise you'd appreciate why a burkini isn't a threat to users.
It's designed for the purpose, so why do you think it would be made an inappropriate material?
You wouldn't worry about what a wet suit is made of, would you?

OK, I see what you mean. The Burkini is not absorbing water. What I see in the beach is a kind of dress that is not planned especially to be dressed in water.

So Burkini is a kind of swimming suit? It is not used in the streets?

Arye

 

[Still]

Arye

It does absorb some water, but not much like a bikini. Indeed the burkini is a swimming suit for conservative muslims.
There's an informative interview with Aheda Zanetti (the inventor) here: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-religion-burqa-designer-idUSKCN10Z27C?il=0

With the sun and surf an integral part of the Australian lifestyle, Zanetti designed the swimsuit in 2004 so Muslim women, who choose to wear a head covering like the hijab, could participate in water activities and other sports.
"The burkini was designed for freedom, flexibility and confidence. It was designed to integrate into Australian society," she said in a phone interview with the Thomson Reuters Foundation from Sydney.

Quite the opposite of being a tool of oppression and barrier to integration, as some seem to believe.

btw I appreciate your forbearance with the language barrier

John

 

[davidsrsb]

The burkinis commonly pictured are flappy and not made of a swim suit or skin suit type material. I would think they would make swimming harder, increase drag in waves, and generally be a hindrance to use in water. Happy to be wrong

Be happy then, you are wrong. They are made out of a lycra fabric intended for swimming and have concealed ties to prevent the upper part ballooning dangerously. They are similar to the lycra wetsuits worn in warm climates for snorkeling

 

[fay spook]

Can they ban morph suits? Then again they help identify students.

 

[Still]

David

Thanks - finally I know how my diving skin works.

John