advertisement


Muslim women are not allowed to wear Burka at the shore in France

I even remember reading an old English book in which the term used was Mussulman.

This term was used up to WW1 at least. I've visited a British military cemetery on the Greek island of Lemnos where some of the soldiers who died at Gallipoli are burried. There is a sign pointing to the section for "Mussulmans". They were Indian soldiers.
 
That is the available sample, but if it's so obvious why did you previously refer to the UK, whereas now you are talking about all users?
Because non-burkini wearers have been dying in the seas around the UK and we hear about it. Perhaps you're away.

I regularly use a diving skin with hood, which is similar to a burkini.
Recently I was diving in a group which included a muslim family, and the mother used a burkini.
It has flaps, skirts, and a baggy hood? It retains air when you enter the water and water when you leave it? So it's not as pictured and hence irrelevant.

I'm bored with your tolerance of oppression. For a view from muslim women try http://www.egale.eu/news/1097/157/Le-voile-c-est-la-negation-de-la-Liberte-et-de-l-Egalite.html

Paul
 
This term was used up to WW1 at least. I've visited a British military cemetery on the Greek island of Lemnos where some of the soldiers who died at Gallipoli are burried. There is a sign pointing to the section for "Mussulmans". They were Indian soldiers.
They were known as Sepoys in the early 19th century.
I am used to being called Moslem in the USA. The oldest term is Moor.
Just never refer to us as Mohammedans, used by the British in the Empire days
 
I even remember reading an old English book in which the term used was Mussulman.

A usage of Mussulman of which I was unaware until now:

'2. slang. Chiefly in pl. In Nazi concentration camps: an inmate in a state of physical and emotional exhaustion who has lost the will to live.

[1950 H. Norden tr. E. Kogon Theory & Pract. Hell xviii. 214 Not all the prisoners were what came to be known as ‘Moslems’, men who were physically and mentally broken, who allowed anything to be done to them.]
1953 G. Reitlinger Final Solution ii. xvii. 458 Most of those who died were just Mussulmen, the camp slang word for a walking skeleton wrapped up in a bit of blanket.
1959 M. Levin Eva 224 These..were the creatures called mussulmans..in the last stage, when they reacted only as brute animals.
1975 N. Freeling What are Bugles blowing For? xxvii. 169 The man..has let himself die. It is a phenomenon similar to what was seen in the camps... The Musselmen they were called.
1982 T. Keneally Schindler's Ark xxxiii. 347 ‘Mussulman’. The term was camp jargon, based on people's memory of newsreels of famine in Muslim countries, for a prisoner who had crossed the borderline that separated the ravenous living from the good-as-dead.'
 
Everyone is happy that Team GB did so well in the Olympics.

nintchdbpict000261396622.jpg


That's not considered offensive by some whilst the use of the word "whore" apparently is.

One seriously confused world it seems.
 
I'm not offended by either the 'British Empire' Twitter post or the word 'whore'. I'm from Birkenhead; it takes a lot to offend me.
 
Have you lived there all your life Joe or were you sufficiently offended by it to leave? :)

Birkenhead
Birkenhead is a shit hole town, Across the River Mersey from Liverpool. The people of Birkenhead are the Chavs of Chavs, alcoholic, crackheads, wanna be gangsters and so called hard men, make up the small inbred population. Getting pregnant at 14 by your boyfriend of 28 who happens to be a mate of your dad is perfectly normal, and part of Birkenhead culture. Birkenhead girls have large breasts and some are deeply attractive if a little tarty or chavtastic. A good time in Birkenhead is drinking cider outside Mac Donalds on a Saturday night, followed by a punch up and shagging a underaged girls at the back of Asda.

Birkenhead is a shit hole full of chavs and crackheads. Birkenhead
#birkenhead #chavs #crackheads #tarty #cider

Maybe I should add it to my list of places to visit?
 
Have you lived there all your life Joe or were you sufficiently offended by it to leave? :)



Maybe I should add it to my list of places to visit?

That piece was probably written by a jealous Scouser.

I left Birkenhead aged 19 to go to university and have no intention of living there again, but my sisters, brother and six of my nieces and nephews still live thereabouts and would never consider moving. It has its good and bad aspects, like most places. Housing is much more affordable there than down South.
 
Unfair IMHO. Please remember pfm is a multinational site and terms/spellings/usage changes nation to nation.

Quite. Also, if we're going to be pedantic about these things, "Quran" is not correct either, as it doesn't follow any of the accepted rules for transcribing Arabic into English.

To elaborate:
- Arabic has 3 vowels (a, i, u) that come in long or short forms (the i and u can be also be used as semi-consonants y and w). The short forms are not written at all in modern Arabic and appear as accents in classical Arabic. In many regions the short "u" tends to be pronounced "o" and the short "i" tends towards "e". So there is some phonetic validity to the spelling Moslem (although pronouncing the "s" as a "z" is a bit of deviation).
- Arabic has a much greater variety of consonants than English. For instance, there are 2 s sounds, 2 z sounds, 2 d sounds, etc. There is a k sound that sounds like, well, k, and a sound often transcribed a q, which is halfway between a k and a glottal stop (and is extremely hard for foreigners to pronounce properly, especially when followed by an i or a u). This q sound is the one used in the Arabic word for the Muslim holy book القرآن‎‎ or al-Qurʾān. Many Arabs find this q sound hard to produce too: colloquial Egyptian doesn't bother with it, replacing it with a simple glottal stop; Beduin tribes or the Sudanese often replace it with a hard g.
- In the transcription above (al-Qurʾān), the only straightforward letters are the l and the n... The short a in the article can be pronounced close to e in some regions. The a at the end is long, as in Ahhh. The "u" is for a short "u" sound (a long u would have the same bar above it as the last a). The squiggle in the middle that looks vaguely like an apostrophe is the sign for a glottal stop, which is a consonant in its own right in Arabic and absolutely essential here.

In conclusion:
- The only correct spelling is Arabic, which is not practical in other regions
- Transcriptions help, but only if you follow the system 100%. al-Qurʾān is OK. there are other ways of doing it, but Koran, Kuran, Quran are all compromised in various ways
- Either you pronounce the word in the Classical Arabic way, or you are making dialectal compromises of some sort
- Foreign words get adapted in various ways by different languages, and it's OK
- I have met many Muslims and spent many hours talking about religion with them. I have never, ever come across or heard of anybody getting offended by a botched transcription or pronunciation.
 
I'd have thought 'Moslem' and 'Muslim' would sound pretty much the same when spoken, as would 'Quran' and 'Koran'.
 
i am offended by the "empire" tweet. is the idea to colonize and enslave people again?


vuk.
 
- Foreign words get adapted in various ways by different languages, and it's OK
- I have met many Muslims and spent many hours talking about religion with them. I have never, ever come across or heard of anybody getting offended by a botched transcription or pronunciation.

Thank-you. Makes complete sense to me.
 
I can't say it offends but it seems archaic that people keep talking about 'Muslims' who think this or do that. It's like saying 'white' people think this or do that. There are a lot of them and they think and do different things.

Imagine being Muslim and reading this load of old cobblers.
 
i am offended by the "empire" tweet. is the idea to colonize and enslave people again?


vuk.
I have seen "white people" accused on many occasions, both are wrong IMO, it's a silly way to judge, i'm not a big fan of sweeping statements, racially or culturally, seems fine to do such where culture is concerned, here on pfm though, goes unpunished for some strange reason. Calling a section of society, uneducated idiots who have no right voting due their inability to be at the intellectual level of the accuser, seems quite sweeping, been posted on pfm since the referendum result, yet Brexit has only brought out racial disharmony, i beg to differ, social inequality has been brought to the fore to, in all it's predjudicial glory.
 
I think this is an interesting comment because it shows how Israelis have become more tolerant of Muslims as some parts of the world have become less tolerant.

I thought Israel's treatment of Muslims was strictly off limits on PFM?

We all know where it will end up.

Sorry; I made the comment as I found it interersting that Muslim women were freely able to wear burkinis in Haifa but yet not in France.
If that causes offence then I'm sure Tony or one of his boys will delete my post.
There is nothing wrong with your comment, Simon, it is obvious what you meant having read the posts from Arye. The problem is merlin has decided to eithe ignore the context in order to bully/complain/argue/gather in support from the gang to hound you relentlessly for page after page, or failed to understand your post. I think the first option is more likely.
 
There is nothing wrong with your comment, Simon, it is obvious what you meant having read the posts from Arye. The problem is merlin has decided to eithe ignore the context in order to bully/complain/argue/gather in support from the gang to hound you relentlessly for page after page, or failed to understand your post. I think the first option is more likely.

Thanks Brian,
I did think my post was relevant & reasonable but if someone is looking for a problem it's not that difficult to find.

Simon
 


advertisement


Back
Top