Munich show 9th to 12th May 2024

[Tony L]

It is interesting watching the videos and trying to correlate music choice vs. numbers in the room. Inconclusive as some kit is clearly more interesting and high-profile than others, and that will skew room numbers, but dipping in and out of that 4+ hour video does show some very empty rooms at times. The demographic seems >95% white men aged 50-75, but from a musical taste perspective that is still pretty wide.

Speaking as someone who buys audiophile record collections there are few common denominators. They vary in content hugely.

I’d not want to be responsible for a playlist to maximise footfall in a room. If I did it would likely be a mixture of 70s and 80s pop, rock, soul, disco, reggae and new-wave stuff along with good but accessible jazz (Blue Note etc) and a bit of classical (Chopin solo piano, late Beethoven string quartets etc). I noticed Linn playing a track off Grace Jones Nightclubbing and thinking ‘yes, I’d play that there too’. I’d still throw a bit of more recent electronica in, Shpongle, Murcof, Ulrich Schnauss etc and I bet I’d be asked what it was by folk looking to buy it!

 

[wulbert]

The problem with hi-fi shows is the visitors just walk out of the room as soon as you play anything challenging. It actually amazes me how much electronica/techno is played these days as go back 20 years and you could totally empty a room with that (I’ve done it!). The further out one goes the smaller the niche that will stay in the room, e.g. I’d happily stay in a room playing Albert Ayler, PIL or Throbbing Gristle, but I’d walk out of AC/DC or Queen as I just don’t like that stuff. No one is ever going to be offended by safe vocal jazz, girl & guitar folk or light classical. It just doesn’t get the negative reaction. The temptation to hire a room and just play Coltrane’s Ascension and Miles Davis Agharta all day would be strong, but it would be an empty room.

Fair enough. I didn't consider the need to actually keep the audience in the room. But I'd have thought potential buyers would want to hear the gear flexing it's muscles now and again.
There doesn't seem to be much MC-ing going on; "And now for a fairly challenging piece. Note how well our XXX is able to maintain the integrity of the music...blah".

 

[wulbert]

I'd love to see a "Laboratory Room" or "Science Room" where popular Hi-Fi myths were either scientifically proved or disproved. It would be interesting and controversial:-
"Cables do Make a Difference" demo/experiment at 3pm.
"Perfect Measuring Hi Fi Actually Sounds Better" at 4pm (Sponsored by ASR)
"Old Gear V Modern Gear"
"Cable Riser Peer Review"

 

[wulbert]

Here's a short clip from the Moonriver/OePhi/Lucas/SUPATRAC room of the new SUPATRAC Nighthawk with an Audio Technica ART20 on my Garrard 301 playing the track which gave me the idea for the name SUPATRAC (Soopertrack by Extrawelt):

Hope you get lots of orders and some recognition for your fantastic invention.

 

[ssimon]

I’d not want to be responsible for a playlist to maximise footfall in a room.

I was told once by an exhibitor at a hifi show that the secret was to find a record by a popular artist that hadn't been heard before (perhaps a pre-release). I remember hearing once for the first time, one of Johnny Cash's last recordings which IMHO were his best.

 

[hifinutt]

Living Voice R80 speakers were used at Munich this year

thanks simon , must get a listen soon

 

[krenzler]

You rhought 4.5h was long? - Here's a 5h walkthrough.

 

[krenzler]

Pictures:

【國外音響展】 2024年德國慕尼黑High End音響展實況報導: Munich High End Show 2024

DAY 04: More than 700 photos are uploaded (MOC, hifideluxe) https://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/showthr...p?13419/page123 DAY 03: More than 1,200 photos are uploaded (MOC) https://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/showthr...p?13419/page71 DAY 02: More than 1,000 photos are uploaded (MOC)...

www.my-hiend.com

 

[Tony L]

Annoyingly he doesn’t seem to have indexed the YouTube video this time. I guess it is just too long to spend the time doing. Usually MyHiEnd is great at this and you can just click to the different rooms.

 

[daytona600]

4-5hrs videos Michael Fremer posted a 30min video on the Project & still missed half of the products

 

[les24preludes]

Agree about the size, it was huge.

And a lot of the systems were huge as well - huge floor standing speakers, boat anchor amps. What you associate with American homes, not UK ones, let alone city apartments. Big systems for the big homes of rich bastards. Thomas Mayer told me he had a much better business model selling very expensive systems than selling lower cost ones. He should know.

Not much help to us mere mortals. My SE tube amps can do 3W a channel downhill with a following wind. But they do sound superb in my modest London listening room.

 

[Tony L]

And a lot of the systems were huge as well - huge floor standing speakers, boat anchor amps.

One thing that struck me from the video is due to the sheer size of many of the absurd speakers tweeters are being forced ever upwards some being far, far above any normal listening seat. Sure, some stick the tweeters in the middle of a huge array of drivers, but many ended up being angled downwards towards the listener like some angry space robot. I couldn’t even picture the type of room some were designed for. Must be something the size of a large hotel dining room or average venue. I’d get no enjoyment listening to music in such a vast space. Just way too big!

As ever I find it all rather depressing. The underlying technology on display being the same old moving coil drivers in hollow ported boxes powered by class A or AB amplifiers. The progress of time simply being measured in how much ‘more’ can be applied to those basic formulas. High-end audio has become so boring now. It is so totally disconnected from core function or innovation. I’d love to know what the real pioneers such as Peter Walker, Paul Klipsch, Ed Villchur would have made of this end point? (FWIW I’m certain this is the end point. This is where two channel audio went to die.)

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Power amps are getting bigger too. Lots of amps there that looked about the same size and weight as a Lamborghini V12, and wouldn't have looked out of place under the bonnet of one.

 

[herb]

As an old flat earther can I say how much I have enjoyed these attached long reviews. The music aside I can hear distinct mid range characteristic dynamic and tonal differences in the luxury kit through my old top range Grado headphones. Fascinating but my kit sounds much better apart from the horn speakers,

 

[Tony L]

As an old flat earther can I say how much I have enjoyed these attached long reviews. The music aside I can hear distinct mid range characteristic dynamic and tonal differences in the luxury kit through my old top range Grado headphones. Fascinating but my kit sounds much better apart from the horn speakers,

Agreed. I hear it in person from this type of system and I can hear it via YouTube too. I’d describe it as a deadness/lack of life and I associate it very much with high-mass construction. I’ve ended firmly in the ‘low mass/thin-wall’ camp both with speakers and turntables. With turntables I feel you do need a pretty decent rotating mass, but adding it elsewhere in the design just sucks the fun and life out of everything. With speakers the lighter the cabs and fewer drivers the less crap it sounds to my ears. I think mass is less of an issue in amps, though most of the huge behemoths at shows are that way as vulgarity sells in this market. There is absolutely no need for a hi-fi amp to be huge.

 

[krenzler]

Unless it's a vintage true class A Krell driving some Apoqee Scintilla 1 ohm's but that amp would still be smaller than some here.

 

[uncl_nigel]

This was my first time at this show. My take aways at the moment are:

1) boy, humans are creative! The sheer variety and build quality of some of these products is awesome. Humans can build anything.
2) can a show be too big?...I think this was. The UK shows are more intimate in comparison and maybe I prefer that.

I dealt with the size by concentrating on the +1 and +2 levels.
The ground floor has most of the static displays and generally awful sound.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Agreed. I hear it in person from this type of system and I can hear it via YouTube too. I’d describe it as a deadness/lack of life and I associate it very much with high-mass construction. I’ve ended firmly in the ‘low mass/thin-wall’ camp both with speakers and turntables. With turntables I feel you do need a pretty decent rotating mass, but adding it elsewhere in the design just sucks the fun and life out of everything. With speakers the lighter the cabs and fewer drivers the less crap it sounds to my ears. I think mass is less of an issue in amps, though most of the huge behemoths at shows are that way as vulgarity sells in this market. There is absolutely no need for a hi-fi amp to be huge.

I tend to agree, though I've seen under the hood of the CH Precision M10 power amps and there's no space to spare in a substantial 4-box (2 amps, 2 power supplies) arrangement. That's also the ultimate end game amp for me (never gonna happen) as its performance is game-changing. Can't say the same for most of these behemoths, though, which are just more of the usual fare, only bigger and heavier.

On the 'deadness and lack of life' thing, I point the finger of suspicion at streaming as much as excess mass.

 

[Tony L]

On the 'deadness and lack of life' thing, I point the finger of suspicion at streaming as much as excess mass.

I agree streaming has been/is often problematic, though I’m at a loss to explain why, and not all sources or solutions are bad IME (i.e. the issue appears to be one of implementation, not concept). That said it doesn’t excuse the rooms using vinyl or CDs. I’m pretty much at the point now where if I see a big heavy MDF floorstander I know it is going to sound like crap from my priorities. The larger, heavier and more drivers a speaker has the more crap the end result IME. There is just something so dead about that kind of construction, it just sucks the music out to my ears. I find it depressing that this is where speaker design has ended up.

PS I need to caveat this in that nearly everything I’m describing has an underlying MDF construction even if it has fancy wood stuck on the sides. I’ve not heard enough machined alloy, carbon fibre etc speakers to form an opinion there. It may just be the MDF I hear.

 

[Columbo]

Agreed. I hear it in person from this type of system and I can hear it via YouTube too. I’d describe it as a deadness/lack of life and I associate it very much with high-mass construction. I’ve ended firmly in the ‘low mass/thin-wall’ camp both with speakers and turntables. With turntables I feel you do need a pretty decent rotating mass, but adding it elsewhere in the design just sucks the fun and life out of everything. With speakers the lighter the cabs and fewer drivers the less crap it sounds to my ears. I think mass is less of an issue in amps, though most of the huge behemoths at shows are that way as vulgarity sells in this market. There is absolutely no need for a hi-fi amp to be huge.

I've been coming to a similar conclusion this week. I've got some Monitor Audios in and they have what I'd call a "studio" sound, more than "live" sound. I noticed similar with Q Acoustics and KEF. All three are incredibly inert. I'm not imagining this correlation? Seems a goal of these types of systems is to let the micro details, the faint reverbs pop out more which create more imaging and soundstage effect? All 3 excel with sound staging and imaging.

Not that this studio-type of sound is inherently good/bad, I imagine down to personal preference.

But it has made me curious to try the new Yamaha or some Audio Note who embrace working with cabinet resonance rather nuking it out of existence.

But yeah, it does seem the goal of many high end speakers is to make them dead inert. Some of them weigh many hundreds of kilos. Have fun setting those up!