Sean Regan
pfm Member
Err... That was a joke!
I don't use daft smilies, I presumed people could work it out for themselves.
Last edited:
Mr Bates vs the Post Office
- Thread starter guydarryl
- Start date
Err... That was a joke!
I don't use daft smilies, I presumed people could work it out for themselves.
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
gez
pfm Member
So it's to be believed from the above that 43% or 38% (depending on which figure you take) of all UK postmasters at the time were non-white, and that 39% of convicted post masters were non-white.. So where's the evidence of any racism? That's exactly the kind of distribution of non whites being convicted you'd expect if an IT system was randomly indicating errors.I heard someone say the same on the radio today. They said it was over 50% but I can’t corroborate that figure anywhere. What I can find is this bbc article which appears to say the % ratio is consistent for those convicted vs the overall numbers.
Racism affected how we were treated over Horizon, says Post Office victims
The workers say they believe racism affected the way people were treated in the Horizon scandalwww.bbc.co.uk
Tony L
Administrator
Just when one felt it was impossible for the Tory Party to be any worse they still find new ways to new lows. They really are absolute scum. Always serving themselves, never the electorate.
www.theguardian.com
news.sky.com
Ministers deny claims government wanted to stall Post Office Horizon scandal payouts
Former Post Office chair claimed request was made so government could ‘limp into’ the next election
Henry Staunton: Former Post Office chairman stands by compensation claims
The government is facing calls to release all documents relating to the sacking of the former Post Office chairman after he claimed he was told to delay compensation payments to Horizon victims and "someone has to take rap" for the IT scandal.
news.sky.com
cosimoss
One Step Beyond
I found the timing of Badenoch’s intervention rather suspicious. She’d failed on another trade deal then suddenly appeared, jumped on Post Office Scandal political bandwagon and sacked Staunton. At the same time waving her right-wing flag for supporters.
In this case I believe what Staunton has said is true and don’t trust anything coming from her mouth. An election can't come soon enough.
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
It will interesting (!) to see what garbage Badenoch comes up with this afternoon. Of course what she says in the house is immune from libel proceedings.
Tony L
Administrator
The Sky business reporter (Ian King?) went to great lengths earlier to highlight that he’d known Staunton for decades and considered him a trustworthy witness. He only narrowly stopped short of calling the Tories corrupt lying self-serving shitheads, which would obviously have been the correct and balanced response.
vacuum_tubes
pfm Member
In a previous story, Badenoch said she was going to be releasing the minutes of the calls she had with him yesterday, she states that nothing he claims about his sacking was actually said in the calls and other civil servants were present.
Strange that none of this evidence has been released (unless I missed it) as I'd expect her to be shouting it from the rooftops.
palindrome
Thru a hedge, backwards and forwards.
And proud of it.
Always a pleasure for grifters when the long con(s) continue to pay dividends. Deception and gaslighting the electorate is the only thing they're actually 'good' at. Everything else they do is an incoherent shambles.
John
eta: forgot their aptitude for money laundering.
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
“As the Kemi Badenoch and Henry Staunton row intensifies, both say they have emails and records to prove the other is lying over the Horizon scandal. It's remarkable how much detailed evidence the government and Post Office officials can produce when it suits them.” - Have I Got News For You (probably written by Mr Hislop…)
AnilS
pfm Member
King strips CBE from former Post Office boss Paula Vennells
Vennells had said she would return honour after fresh fallout over wrongful prosecution of post office operators
The Vennells CBE withdrawal is just another feeble smokescreen.
This is not an original observation but I read somewhere that one thing that made them especially aggressive in pursuing allegations of fraud was that they were well aware that Horizon was buggy but they were also preparing for privatisation and the existence of a flawed back end management system would have severely compromised any privatisation valuation. The fraud allegations were to stop auditors from stumbling on the reality.
Whether this is true or not, either management were aware that Horizon was buggy or they were not. If not then they were demonstrably incompetent. If they were aware that a fundamental management system was flawed and did nothing to remedy this then they and not postmasters were criminally liable for any losses. In either case management did not deserve their salaries, let alone pensions, bonuses and honours.
This is not an original observation but I read somewhere that one thing that made them especially aggressive in pursuing allegations of fraud was that they were well aware that Horizon was buggy but they were also preparing for privatisation and the existence of a flawed back end management system would have severely compromised any privatisation valuation. The fraud allegations were to stop auditors from stumbling on the reality.
Whether this is true or not, either management were aware that Horizon was buggy or they were not. If not then they were demonstrably incompetent. If they were aware that a fundamental management system was flawed and did nothing to remedy this then they and not postmasters were criminally liable for any losses. In either case management did not deserve their salaries, let alone pensions, bonuses and honours.
That Read character (PO CEO) sent a letter to the government minister who's overseeing the legal stuff re clearing postmaster of crimes.
Read has basically said that half of the convicted SPMs are guilty.
This is a guy who got thousands for attending the enquiry into Horizon and then had to give about £15k back cause he came away with some bullshit or other.
apple.news
Read has basically said that half of the convicted SPMs are guilty.
This is a guy who got thousands for attending the enquiry into Horizon and then had to give about £15k back cause he came away with some bullshit or other.
Fury over Post Office plan to block attempts to clear 369 Horizon victims — inews
Former sub-postmasters have joined calls for Post Office CEO Nick Read to resign over a letter in which he said more than half of those convicted in the Horizon scandal were 'guilty as charged'
vacuum_tubes
pfm Member
No he didn't say that. Not defending him but he said that under current PO rules they are obligated to oppose the appeals for some of the cases as they weren't based on evidence from the Horizon system.
I would like to think that he was advising the govt that when they write the legislation to quash the convictions the bill/law includes a caveat or clause to prevent any appeals or objections by the PO.
Post Office boss Nick Read is facing calls to resign after he wrote to the Government setting out plans to block more than half of all Horizon scandal convictions being overturned.
On Thursday, Number 10 announced plans to bring forward “unprecedented” legislation before the summer to overturn Post Office scandal convictions en masse and “deliver long overdue justice to postmasters”.
However, on Thursday evening it emerged that Mr Read, who succeeded former CEO Paula Vennells in 2019, sent a letter to Justice Minister Alex Chalk on 9 January saying he wanted the Government to be “fully informed” about its intentions.
Following a review carried out by Post Office lawyers, Mr Read made clear the company would seek to oppose at least 369 convictions being overturned because they relied on “evidence unrelated to the Horizon computer system”.
A separate letter from Nick Vamos, head of crime at Peters & Peters, the law firm instructed by the Post Office, stated that “it is highly likely that the vast majority of people who have not yet appealed were, in fact, guilty as charged and were safely convicted”.
*Continues*
Mr Read, who was brought in to turn around the financial fortunes of the Post Office which lost £76m in 2023, has already faced criticism after it emerged he was paid more than £54,000 in bonuses for participating in the Horizon public inquiry.
He later agreed to pay the money back.
“I’ve spoken to Nick Read several times, I honestly think he’s trying his best,” Mr Head added. “I don’t think he feels like he can come out and say what he wants.
“But the fact is his position is untenable now – if you’re CEO, you don’t put your name to that letter. He’s caused his own downfall.”
Mr Read is one of a number of key witnesses due to give evidence at the Business and Trade select committee next Tuesday.
The Post Office declined to comment and it is understood Mr Read plans to respond to the issues raised in his letter at the committee.
Kevan Jones, the Labour MP who has long campaigned for Horizon victims, told i he expects answers.
“The Post Office and its solicitors seem to be completely detached from reality,” he said. “Nick Read must explain why he apparently took it upon himself to write to the Lord Chancellor on the back of unsolicited advice undermining the overturning of Horizon convictions.
“It seems the Post Office still cannot accept the scale of the injustice it and its investigators presided over.”
Andy McDonald, the Labour MP who also sits on the Business and Trade committee, backed those calls for an explanation.
“The public has been horrified by the behaviour of the Post Office over all of this,” he told i. “They want these matters resolved and now it seems that the Post Office and the Government are out of step with each other.
“We, as a committee, have got to interrogate these matters again and we will be raising it at the earliest opportunity.”
A Government spokesperson said: “Innocent postmasters have suffered an intolerable and unprecedented miscarriage of justice at the hands of the Post Office, which is why we are introducing legislation to swiftly exonerate all those convicted as a result of the Horizon Scandal.
“We will introduce safeguards to avoid anyone who was rightly convicted trying to take advantage of compensation schemes.”
gez
pfm Member
Well to be fair, if they do indeed have evidence that's completely unreliant on the bugged system to secure a conviction then the conviction should clearly stand. But just presuming that "those that didn't complain" must have been guilty is clearly a lot of tosh.
I would argue the correct thing to do, would be to dismiss the previous convictions on mass, and then tell the PO if they have evidence that does not in any way rely on the horizon system, (either directly or indirectly), feel free to bring about another case and prove it in court.
I would argue the correct thing to do, would be to dismiss the previous convictions on mass, and then tell the PO if they have evidence that does not in any way rely on the horizon system, (either directly or indirectly), feel free to bring about another case and prove it in court.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
It's simple, split them into two groups, horizon and none horizon. Payout on horizon immediately and then test a few none horizon at random. If they all pass a smell test then pay them all out as well.
No one wants to see fraudsters get away with it , buts that no reason to slow roll those where only horizon evidence exists.
No one wants to see fraudsters get away with it , buts that no reason to slow roll those where only horizon evidence exists.
ff1d1l
pfm Member
I think its mostly bollocks. If there were any bent postmasters, I think the number would be very, very few. The post office culture then was not one that encouraged the fraudulent to pursue a career in it.
This is just the usual backpedaling now the furore after the program has died down.
How about some prosecutions in the post office executive, and fujitsu for complicity.
Utter, utter sh1ts.
This is just the usual backpedaling now the furore after the program has died down.
How about some prosecutions in the post office executive, and fujitsu for complicity.
Utter, utter sh1ts.