Mr Bates vs the Post Office

[gintonic]

we had mock elections at primary school. All the bully boys were tories. We had mock elections at secondary school - political debate. My grandfather was a member of the revolutionary communist party. My parents always voted Liberal. I am still a paid member of the Labour Party, and until recently have been active on the hustings locally.

Our MP is Grant Shapps, strangely he was doing the rounds in our area today, and knocked on our front door.

 

[Tony L]

Did you have the boiling oil ready?

 

[gintonic]

Did you have the boiling oil ready?

I eschew violence, the mess lowers the tone

 

[SteveS1]

we had mock elections at primary school. All the bully boys were tories. We had mock elections at secondary school - political debate. My grandfather was a member of the revolutionary communist party. My parents always voted Liberal. I am still a paid member of the Labour Party, and until recently have been active on the hustings locally.

Our MP is Grant Shapps, strangely he was doing the rounds in our area today, and knocked on our front door.

What name was he answering to this week? I could think of a couple.

 

[The Captain]

I'm not sure if this angle has been discussed here on this Horizon scandal, but I get an increasing feeling of it stinking of institutional racism. Yes there are many who are white who've been accused.. but I want to know the percentage of minority non-white, vs white, among the 700 folks wrongly accused. I bet it's at least 50-50.

Capt

 

[gintonic]

I'm not sure if this angle has been discussed here on this Horizon scandal, but I get an increasing feeling of it stinking of institutional racism. Yes there are many who are white who've been accused.. but I want to know the percentage of minority non-white, vs white, among the 700 folks wrongly accused. I bet it's at least 50-50.

Capt

Google is your friend https://minhalexander.com/2023/07/2...d-the-public-sector-duty-to-promote-equality/

plenty more online

 

[The Captain]

Google is your friend https://minhalexander.com/2023/07/2...d-the-public-sector-duty-to-promote-equality/

plenty more online

Utterly meaningless thinking/ link g&t. And lazy too (I could just lazily link you to an article about racism in the PO.. & from a reputable source, too).

Just because there's some token 'inclusive gesture' sometime, doesn't mean this Horizon doesn't stink of racism.

I think this will come out in the wash myself, as scrutiny is now being ramped up with their tax affairs coming under the spotlight.

 

[AnilS]

As I was saying.

Sir Ed Davey refuses to say sorry 10 times over not taking enough action amid Post Office Horizon scandal

Sir Ed Davey has refused to say sorry 10 times for not taking enough action during the Horizon scandal.

www.lbc.co.uk

 

[Bob McC]

Excellent article by Mathew Syed in the Times


Why I pray Alan Bates rejects a knighthood

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[Jubal]

I'm not sure if this angle has been discussed here on this Horizon scandal, but I get an increasing feeling of it stinking of institutional racism. Yes there are many who are white who've been accused.. but I want to know the percentage of minority non-white, vs white, among the 700 folks wrongly accused. I bet it's at least 50-50.

Capt

I heard someone say the same on the radio today. They said it was over 50% but I can’t corroborate that figure anywhere. What I can find is this bbc article which appears to say the % ratio is consistent for those convicted vs the overall numbers.

Racism affected how we were treated over Horizon, says Post Office victims

The workers say they believe racism affected the way people were treated in the Horizon scandal

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Minio]

I think the different cultures of the two organisations may have contributed to the ongoing mess we have seen here.

My personal experience of working in private industry is of a more relaxed and benign attitude, compared to experiences with the Royal Mail.

If Fujitsu was inflicting errors on Post Offices they were unlikely to be deliberate; but still unforgivable.

The private company were not so au fait with the officious investigative side of the Post Office which still operated like an authoritative arm of the state. Mr Bradshaw illustrated this well. He seriously believed he did nothing wrong purely out of ignorance.

There is no excuse for this running on like it did but I don't find it too surprising given the very different players.

 

[Tony L]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1746246940185051430

“Explosive claim in the Sunday Times:

Source claims Paula Vennells was recommended for CBE by Business Department for "bending her conscience and holding the line" to keep cost of scandal down.”

Tim Witherow, The Times.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Also, you could infer from that that she was placed there to take the shit. You don’t usually get to run the Post Office after ‘an unremarkable business career’.

 

[Martyn Miles]

Excellent article by Mathew Syed in the Times


Why I pray Alan Bates rejects a knighthood

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

Perhaps Davey should firstly apologise and then hand back his honour.
The honours system should be wound up.

 

[ff1d1l]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1746246940185051430

“Explosive claim in the Sunday Times:

Source claims Paula Vennells was recommended for CBE by Business Department for "bending her conscience and holding the line" to keep cost of scandal down.”

Tim Witherow, The Times.

I don't find this difficult to believe.

On Alan Bates's knighthood, an email came in for a petition, and I haven't yet signed it, as its quite a conflicting issue.
Some complete shite has got knighthoods lately, and my recognition of Mr Bates's idealism and tenacity sees this as being sullied by the association.
On the other hand, the HOL has of late been stuffed with this unprincipled tory trash, and this would redress the balance a little. I can't imagine Mr Bates would be anything but a force for good there. And I can't imagine his motives for wanting to get himself into the HOL as being other than altruistic.

All in all, I'll probably sign. But I don't feel quite as excercised as I did to have Vennals CBE taken away.

 

[twotone]

There’s a few good articles in this morning’s papers.

A couple of things jumped out one is that the PO got the law changed back in 1999 re machines not being held accountable for wrongdoing and that same year they trialed Horizon in the north east of England which resulted in SPMs there going nuts because of balancing errors and other issues.

Another thing was that a couple who lost everything have lived in a camper van for the last 20 years as a result of this scandal.

‘A tragedy is not far away’: 25-year-old Post Office memo predicted scandal — The Guardian

A 1999 note highlighted concerns of subpostmasters about the Horizon system and heralded decades of ministerial failings

apple.news

Opinion - Post Office scandal: cash for convictions is by far the worst revelation yet — Evening Standard

Query: which element of the great Post Office Horizon scandal is the most outrageous? Your call. Was it the way that the Post Office bosses unquestioningly put their faith in the infallibility of technology over the integrity of some 900 people of previously good character? Was it the way...

apple.news

The Post Office scandal reveals MPs’ hypocrisy — The Guardian

Now, our leaders laud the subpostmasters; then, they ignored them

apple.news

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I don't find this difficult to believe.

On Alan Bates's knighthood, an email came in for a petition, and I haven't yet signed it, as its quite a conflicting issue.
Some complete shite has got knighthoods lately, and my recognition of Mr Bates's idealism and tenacity sees this as being sullied by the association.
On the other hand, the HOL has of late been stuffed with this unprincipled tory trash, and this would redress the balance a little. I can't imagine Mr Bates would be anything but a force for good there. And I can't imagine his motives for wanting to get himself into the HOL as being other than altruistic.

All in all, I'll probably sign. But I don't feel quite as excercised as I did to have Vennals CBE taken away.

A knighthood doesn’t give you a seat in the House of Lords.

 

[Minio]

she was placed there to take the shit

When the going gets tough find an eejut to sit where it descends and pay them accordingly.

Sounds like my old boss.

 

[Finnegan]

Gordon Brown said that horizon should be scrapped but that it would be difficult to do that politically.

Doesn’t it tell you everything you need to know when the political establishment sheds crocodile tears and wrings its hands, bleating about how constitutionally difficult it is to redress this whole situation, but the cabinet takes us to war overnight?

 

[vacuum_tubes]

Also, you could infer from that that she was placed there to take the shit. You don’t usually get to run the Post Office after ‘an unremarkable business career’.

Doesn't make sense, in what world would someone look at her CV and think she would be corporate shit umbrella.

An anglican priest
commercial director for whitbread
sales director for Dixons and Argos
Joined the PO as a group director

If you saw that on linkedin I certainly wouldn't think "an unremarkable business career"

I think the truth is that as CEO she was corrupt and wanted to keep her job and to do so was willing to be complicit in the cover up. I don't think there was anything ulterior in promoting her, it was just good luck for them she happened to be a ****