MDAC first listen (part XXIII)
- Thread starter Richard Kimber
- Start date
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jimmy.cross
pfm Member
Perhaps buying directly from JohnW is the best option after all. It also saves u one way shipping to the Czech Republic
Joker_Hartmann
pfm Member
just a quick shot from my Dac powering a party all night.
Perfect job and great quality.
Perfect job and great quality.
Nice DJ rig...even if it is apple based
I've used mine for a few parties, a laptop, with a couple of active JBL monitors, connected via XLR...very impressive, and very portable too
Lo Simon. What's your take on 240 regenerators. Legitimate ones I mean.
I'm considering one instead of the fusion thing when the funds have settled.
I'm very delighted by what the DC blokker did along with a suppressor fitted to the fridge. Seems absurd to me, but the difference is more discernable than the switch to the L2 MDac.
I've often thought my supply was flaky; old house and miserly landlord.
But I'm quite dumbstruck by the change.
Richard Kimber
pfm Member
John should "hire" a secretary/wiki page keeper to keep the info about upgrades up-to-date on some static place, for all these and future questions. Important information get buried quite fast in here.
And he must find himself having to repeat stuff endlessly.
- Richard.
Richard Kimber
pfm Member
Indeed. That's why I was asking about the benefits of the third party 'enhanced' power supply. It seems to me that it's not going to do anything that the Audiolab block doesn't.
- Richard.
Hi John,
I think you missed my post a few days back among the huge torrent of posts at the time (Part XIII, p.5, post 67) regarding a visit to CZ in the autumn with a view an L2MDAC upgrade.
A think lot of people are are on tenterhooks awaiting the results of this weekends evaluations - best wishes.
Roger.
I think you missed my post a few days back among the huge torrent of posts at the time (Part XIII, p.5, post 67) regarding a visit to CZ in the autumn with a view an L2MDAC upgrade.
A think lot of people are are on tenterhooks awaiting the results of this weekends evaluations - best wishes.
Roger.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
It depends if you are just replacing one multirail AC supply with another than chances are it will do bugger all. Feeding it 6x rails of fully regulated DC however will likely offer some improvement
I need to sort out / discuss something with John before posting more extensive review here (some weird stuff).
Long story short, I'm going for the "fusion" upgrade, but the reason might not be so clear.
Jiri
...mmm, as a man who's just ordered the 'Toy' upgrade your statement makes me a little concerned...I'll just have to be patient for your full report
jimmy.cross
pfm Member
Hi,
although I have started a new thread (MDAC vs Naim dac V1), I would like to know what aspects of the sound are mostly affected by the new upgrades, apart from ultimate resolution. Is the treeble sweeter? The bass fuller? Vice-versa?
I find it mostly intriguing and amazing that JohnW is doing all this work...and somewhat I am reluctant to give up on buying the MDAC :-S
although I have started a new thread (MDAC vs Naim dac V1), I would like to know what aspects of the sound are mostly affected by the new upgrades, apart from ultimate resolution. Is the treeble sweeter? The bass fuller? Vice-versa?
I find it mostly intriguing and amazing that JohnW is doing all this work...and somewhat I am reluctant to give up on buying the MDAC :-S
JohnW
pfm member
Yesterday was an exhausting day, not helped by the fact that its getting hot here in Czech Rep, it was 27.8 DegC in the room while we where listening and today’s going to be no better, its 9am and already 28.6DegC – I’m already topless
I’ll list the units we listened too and summarized the modifications made:
1. Johna’s Fusion unit with x4 100pF added for extended stability & 9600pF of BCcomponents capacitors in place of 10nF EVOX PFR’s
2. Jems “Silver Unit” uncased with L2MDAC upgrade with Dale resistors.
3. SimonOm “Black” unit, fully cased, with L2MDAC upgrade with Dale resistors & with x4 100pF added for extended stability). Simons unit was ready to be shipped out together with Johan’s unit before I held back the shipment of both units as I was so unhappy with the sound of Johans’s unit (what ever might be effecting Johan’s unit might also be relevant to Simons unit).
We listen to Johnas unit first – reasonably wide soundstage (not as wide as with the original Tyco’s) + detail but Jiri’s first word is that it “somehow sounded constrained” I noted Jiri was not foot tapping along (later after listening to the other variations, we identified an “annoying” hardness to the lower midrange and a soft but deep Bass – I describe the Bass as lacking leading edge impact.
Then we listen to Jem’s silver unit (Dale'd L2MDAC)– I’ve always been very happy with the Sound quality of this unit – if only Johnas unit sounded this good from day one! Now Jiri was foot tapping and “happy” Bass was firm, detail not so great with narrower sound stage…
Simons Black unit – and Jiri said “I want my unit to sound like this"! – I felt is sounded pretty much like Jem’s unit, but with a slightly more closed soundstage and thus more congested – which made it feel a little more full bodied, but lack clarity – certainly when compared to Johan’s unit which had the widest sound stage and detail (but crippled by its hardness in the midrange and a “constrained” sound).
So the next step was to upgrade Jems unit to “Toy” Spec. (replacing its Dale resistors - using in fact Steve Toys resistors) – BAM!!! Reconfirmed!!!, the Vishays bulk foils did what they do – Resolution was notably lifted and sound stage opened up very nicely It retained it tight foot tapping bass – with even more clarity, removed a “fuzzy hush effecting fine detail” resolution was nice – sound stage was much wider (although not as wide as the Tyco) – but most importantly retaining its Foot tapping ability’s.
The Jems “Toy” L2MDAC leapfrogged SimonOm Dale L2MDAC in such a big way we did not return to listening to it during the season – there was simply no point as it was left behind in the dust - so a Big thumbs up to the “Toy” upgrade
Now that its had been confirmed the Dales where out - Vishay Bulk foils where clearly the direction to go, the rest of the day was then spent comparing Johan’s "Fusion’ed" unit and Jems "Toy" unit.
Johans Fusion unit had the lead for detail and sound stage, but its midrange hardness, and congested nature was crippling it.
The first stage was to remove the x4 100pF I had added to Johnas unit for extended stability – now before the unit would not work without them – but for the life of me I could not make it misbehave once I’d removed them!!! Very odd, and I don’t understand why it now worked without them… Maybe there was a bad solder joint that I’d resoldered during the rebuild… (I need to look into this more today).
Johans unit with the “extra” x4 100pF removed opened the sound stage up even more! and increased detail, but did not resolve the Midrange hardness.
The next move was to replace the 9600pF of BCcomponents capacitors (which had Magnetic leads) to Wima’s 10nF which where non magnetic – this banished the midrange harness never to be heard or mentioned again.
Now the Johans Fusion’ed unit excelled with Clarity, “Smoothness” to female vocals, incredible resolution – and "Tyco wide soundstage" – foot tapping was back (but Jem’s unit was still very slightly ahead in this regards).
Johans Fusioned unit had extend it lead over Jem’s “Toy” unit that we then just mainly spent our time with the fusion unit trying to identify what was still giving it its “Constrained sound”. The constrained sound has ALWAYS been a REAL problem with Johans unit – before the tender loving care I’d extended to it, it really sound horrid… the Vishay and capacitor upgrades really improved it – but I’ve never lost the feeling that I’m still listening to these modifications though its original constriction – so it now’s the best sounding version, however my overriding gut feeling based upon my experience as a designer telling me that the upgrades are being limited by the units original problem that still had not been resolved satisfactorily – its still being “Constrained” although its now the best sounding!
The “softness” to Johans units Bass I believe is what’s resulting in the its constrained sound.
I know (and fear) that when Jems’s unit is fusion’ed – its going to blow Johans unit out the water, and this is a situation I cannot accept. I feel under so much pressure by the current situation and Johans eagerness to have his unit back that I cannot think clearly.
Time is getting so critical that unless I have a “Oh yes moment” I’m going to give up on trying to fix Johans unit and swapout his mainboard (and transfere all the modifications) with my own unit, so that Johan then gets my own personal PCB with the Fusion’ed update.
I’d rather not do this, not only because of the work involved, but because I’ve would have failed to find the cause of Johan units issues… as the designer I need to understand what’s going on for any future encounters etc…
Is unfortunate that I built up the first Fusion’ed” upgrade on a unit that has got its own unique issues – I had hoped that during the upgrade I’d have “Blindly and unknowingly” removed the culprit’s components – this unfortunately has not been the case.
Don’t get me wrong, the Fusioned is unquestionably the best overall sounding unit – but Johans unit has never 100% lost is unique character that’s constrained it so much in its original form – It’s still not managed to free itself (which results in a softening of its Bass and thus its ultimate foot tapping ability). I’d say that Jems unit still had the lead in this respect from “New” Jems had not been handicapped in anyway unlike Johans unit has proved to be a very difficult patient ( I might need Dr House's help here)!
Before I’m forced to give-up on Johan and just swap its board with my own known good unit – I’ll give it one more try… I’d like to believe I never to give up easy!
The one thing I’ll say is that ANYONE who says all DAC’s sound the same needs to be present when we swap out individual brand of capacitors or even greater extent the Vishay resistors to hear there effect on sound quality – forget a whole different design!
I’ll let Jiri post his own comments on what was a very long a tiring HOT day! Jiri Thank you once again for your effort and time – its very useful for me to go through the variations and have independent feedback
I’ll list the units we listened too and summarized the modifications made:
1. Johna’s Fusion unit with x4 100pF added for extended stability & 9600pF of BCcomponents capacitors in place of 10nF EVOX PFR’s
2. Jems “Silver Unit” uncased with L2MDAC upgrade with Dale resistors.
3. SimonOm “Black” unit, fully cased, with L2MDAC upgrade with Dale resistors & with x4 100pF added for extended stability). Simons unit was ready to be shipped out together with Johan’s unit before I held back the shipment of both units as I was so unhappy with the sound of Johans’s unit (what ever might be effecting Johan’s unit might also be relevant to Simons unit).
We listen to Johnas unit first – reasonably wide soundstage (not as wide as with the original Tyco’s) + detail but Jiri’s first word is that it “somehow sounded constrained” I noted Jiri was not foot tapping along (later after listening to the other variations, we identified an “annoying” hardness to the lower midrange and a soft but deep Bass – I describe the Bass as lacking leading edge impact.
Then we listen to Jem’s silver unit (Dale'd L2MDAC)– I’ve always been very happy with the Sound quality of this unit – if only Johnas unit sounded this good from day one! Now Jiri was foot tapping and “happy” Bass was firm, detail not so great with narrower sound stage…
Simons Black unit – and Jiri said “I want my unit to sound like this"! – I felt is sounded pretty much like Jem’s unit, but with a slightly more closed soundstage and thus more congested – which made it feel a little more full bodied, but lack clarity – certainly when compared to Johan’s unit which had the widest sound stage and detail (but crippled by its hardness in the midrange and a “constrained” sound).
So the next step was to upgrade Jems unit to “Toy” Spec. (replacing its Dale resistors - using in fact Steve Toys resistors) – BAM!!! Reconfirmed!!!, the Vishays bulk foils did what they do – Resolution was notably lifted and sound stage opened up very nicely
It retained it tight foot tapping bass – with even more clarity, removed a “fuzzy hush effecting fine detail” resolution was nice – sound stage was much wider (although not as wide as the Tyco) – but most importantly retaining its Foot tapping ability’s.The Jems “Toy” L2MDAC leapfrogged SimonOm Dale L2MDAC in such a big way we did not return to listening to it during the season – there was simply no point as it was left behind in the dust - so a Big thumbs up to the “Toy” upgrade
Now that its had been confirmed the Dales where out - Vishay Bulk foils where clearly the direction to go, the rest of the day was then spent comparing Johan’s "Fusion’ed" unit and Jems "Toy" unit.
Johans Fusion unit had the lead for detail and sound stage, but its midrange hardness, and congested nature was crippling it.
The first stage was to remove the x4 100pF I had added to Johnas unit for extended stability – now before the unit would not work without them – but for the life of me I could not make it misbehave once I’d removed them!!! Very odd, and I don’t understand why it now worked without them… Maybe there was a bad solder joint that I’d resoldered during the rebuild… (I need to look into this more today).
Johans unit with the “extra” x4 100pF removed opened the sound stage up even more! and increased detail, but did not resolve the Midrange hardness.
The next move was to replace the 9600pF of BCcomponents capacitors (which had Magnetic leads) to Wima’s 10nF which where non magnetic – this banished the midrange harness never to be heard or mentioned again.
Now the Johans Fusion’ed unit excelled with Clarity, “Smoothness” to female vocals, incredible resolution – and "Tyco wide soundstage" – foot tapping was back (but Jem’s unit was still very slightly ahead in this regards).
Johans Fusioned unit had extend it lead over Jem’s “Toy” unit that we then just mainly spent our time with the fusion unit trying to identify what was still giving it its “Constrained sound”. The constrained sound has ALWAYS been a REAL problem with Johans unit – before the tender loving care I’d extended to it, it really sound horrid… the Vishay and capacitor upgrades really improved it – but I’ve never lost the feeling that I’m still listening to these modifications though its original constriction – so it now’s the best sounding version, however my overriding gut feeling based upon my experience as a designer telling me that the upgrades are being limited by the units original problem that still had not been resolved satisfactorily – its still being “Constrained” although its now the best sounding!
The “softness” to Johans units Bass I believe is what’s resulting in the its constrained sound.
I know (and fear) that when Jems’s unit is fusion’ed – its going to blow Johans unit out the water, and this is a situation I cannot accept. I feel under so much pressure by the current situation and Johans eagerness to have his unit back that I cannot think clearly.
Time is getting so critical that unless I have a “Oh yes moment” I’m going to give up on trying to fix Johans unit and swapout his mainboard (and transfere all the modifications) with my own unit, so that Johan then gets my own personal PCB with the Fusion’ed update.
I’d rather not do this, not only because of the work involved, but because I’ve would have failed to find the cause of Johan units issues… as the designer I need to understand what’s going on for any future encounters etc…
Is unfortunate that I built up the first Fusion’ed” upgrade on a unit that has got its own unique issues – I had hoped that during the upgrade I’d have “Blindly and unknowingly” removed the culprit’s components – this unfortunately has not been the case.
Don’t get me wrong, the Fusioned is unquestionably the best overall sounding unit – but Johans unit has never 100% lost is unique character that’s constrained it so much in its original form – It’s still not managed to free itself (which results in a softening of its Bass and thus its ultimate foot tapping ability). I’d say that Jems unit still had the lead in this respect from “New” Jems had not been handicapped in anyway unlike Johans unit has proved to be a very difficult patient ( I might need Dr House's help here)!
Before I’m forced to give-up on Johan and just swap its board with my own known good unit – I’ll give it one more try… I’d like to believe I never to give up easy!
The one thing I’ll say is that ANYONE who says all DAC’s sound the same needs to be present when we swap out individual brand of capacitors or even greater extent the Vishay resistors to hear there effect on sound quality – forget a whole different design!
I’ll let Jiri post his own comments on what was a very long a tiring HOT day! Jiri Thank you once again for your effort and time – its very useful for me to go through the variations and have independent feedback
The Jems Toy L2MDAC leapfrogged SimonOm Dale L2MDAC in such a big way we did not return to listening to it during the season there was simply no point as it was left behind in the dust - so a Big thumbs up to the Toy upgrade
Hi John, thanks for the detailed feedback, I hope my black unit responds as well to the 'Toy' upgrade...
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