MDAC first listen (part IV)

[Adrian]

No it most certainly isn't! (imo) It is a cascade of kludges, a pile of unsupported bodges.

I might take exception to the kludge's comment But I am hoping the installation process can be simplified once enough people validate that it works for them.

Re including a media renderer in MDAC - I wouldn't underestimate the amount of software to get the full set of features people look for including gapless playback across a range of codecs etc. Getting a reasonable set of internet radio and possibly streaming services will also require reasonable software investment. It really depends where John and Dominik want to focus their design efforts...

 

[canyelles]

I might take exception to the kludge's comment But I am hoping the installation process can be simplified once enough people validate that it works for them.

Re including a media renderer in MDAC - I wouldn't underestimate the amount of software to get the full set of features people look for including gapless playback across a range of codecs etc. Getting a reasonable set of internet radio and possibly streaming services will also require reasonable software investment. It really depends where John and Dominik want to focus their design efforts...

Perhaps John and Dominic should get together with Logitec to produce a Squeezebox combined with a first class DAC and Digital Pre-Amp in one box.

Oh, wait a minute... That's exactly what the Transporter is!

 

[AndyU]

It really depends where John and Dominik want to focus their design efforts...

.. do they want to use up their support efforts on Logitech hardware bodged by an entity known only as 'soundcheck' with another bodge by an entity known only as 'Triode' with unsupported contributions by (at last!) a real person called 'John Swenson'? All of which could fail as Logitech roll out a new release. Time will tell.

ps. making Logitech an offer they can't refuse is a much more interesting option. The Transporter has pretty much died the death since Sean sold slimdevices to Logitech, so to reincarnate it as an MDAC with streaming could interest them. That would be elegant!

 

[Adrian]

.. do they want to use up their support efforts on Logitech hardware bodged by an entity known only as 'soundcheck' with another bodge by an entity known only as 'Triode' with unsupported contributions by (at last!) a real person called 'John Swenson'? All of which could fail as Logitech roll out a new release. Time will tell.

Well I've probably got too much code in the Logitech code base to comment further on that..... Adrian (Triode)

 

[ChrisPa]

.. do they want to use up their support efforts on Logitech hardware bodged by an entity known only as 'soundcheck' with another bodge by an entity known only as 'Triode' with unsupported contributions by (at last!) a real person called 'John Swenson'? All of which could fail as Logitech roll out a new release. Time will tell

somewhat (if not totally) unjustified

thanks to a 'bodge' by triode I have been successfully listening to BBC iplayer streams via my squeezebox since virtually the iplayer was launched. I have absolutely no problem with him being a triode and applaud his work. No bodges there. Can't understand why you should think a modular and extensible system is a 'bodge'

How do you know that 'John Swenson' isn't an alien from the planet Zarg?

 

[ChrisPa]

Thank you Adrian.

Your work has been most appreciated and given me many days of pleasure. It's the only way I play radio through my hifi nowadays

 

[AndyU]

ive been listening to iPlayer through my Touch for ages too, so thanks Triode. But I've also been listening to iPlayer through my iPad, my iTouch and my Sony BluRay for a fair while too - the latter three being an rather easier to set up and use. Most folk want something that works out of the box. Streaming to a Touch and then out of a hacked USB port is not the way to go for the majority. Sean Adams would have a fit! Where is he now? Come back!

p.s. ... wouldn't softsqueeze running on a netbook be an arguably less inelegant way of connecting LMS to a USB port? Who needs a (hacked) Touch?

 

[ChrisPa]

ive been listening to iPlayer through my Touch for ages too, so thanks Triode. But I've also been listening to iPlayer through my iPad, my iTouch and my Sony BluRay for a fair while too - the latter three being an rather easier to set up and use. Most folk want something that works out of the box. Streaming to a Touch and then out of a hacked USB port is not the way to go for the majority. Sean Adams would have a fit! Where is he now? Come back!

you seem to be mixing your arguments.

'Hacked usb port' (whether or not it is - hacking has the same connotations as bodge and I'm sure there is no no need for 'bodging' in triode's code - please go and objectively review all source code before using such words) has nothing to do with the lack of complexity in enabling the Squeezebox iplayer plugin. It's not really any harder to tick the box to enable the iplayer plugin than it is to run iplayer on any of the other devices you've listed. Is BBC iplayer preinstalled on an ipad? (to be honest, so what if it is? I think your argument is out of proportion to the actual task - if you've really got a problem with Squeezebox plugins then you've got a problem with 'Sean's' legacy and not what's come since)

So back to the usb port or otherwise getting digital data out of a Squeezebox. The 'majority' don't need to do anything with the sb usb port, so it's not relevant to your comparison to the other devices. The good thing about the open source nature of the sb code is that if you do want to modify it then you can. not because you 'have' to. And of course this open source nature is another of Sean' legacies. Did he get right or wrong?

 

[AndyU]

Sean got it right. And if he was still around, and thought the ESS chip was any good, he'd have put one inside a Transporter. Elegantly.

 

[jaspert]

Hi John,

I don't believe there's anything we can do to speed up the MDAC's locking time its already under 500mS.

Don't confuse the Rotel's which has a "Bitstream" DAC for the Dolby/DTS Bitstream setting on a DVD/AV systems. One's referring to the Bitstream DAC architecture (Rotel) while the second refers to the Data transmitted from the Digital output (Oppo).

The Rotel "Mute's" its digital output during any function apart from Play - while the Oppo reverts its output to 48kHz - both actions require a re-Lock advent.

95% of CD players will keep the DAC in lock upon power-up, your just unlucky with the Rotel.

John

My Shigaclone transport (favourite combo with tubed NOS Dac) also plays up this way with my MDac. No biggie as I mainly use the Mdac with SQ Touch via SPDIF with no drop out issue. Very impressed with the MDac.

 

[John_73]

My Shigaclone transport (favourite combo with tubed NOS Dac) also plays up this way with my MDac. No biggie as I mainly use the Mdac with SQ Touch via SPDIF with no drop out issue. Very impressed with the MDac.

Interesting - I too have a Shigaclone (forgot to mention that, and tested it out earlier) and it has even worse locking symptoms than either my Rotel or the Oppo. Sound will sometimes mute mid-song. All told, I'll stick with USB with MDAC I think. I have to say I am a little disappointed as I've never had this problem (with these 3 transports, or others in the past I've owned) with any other DAC, to date. Still it sounds so superb I'm loath to change to anything else.

 

[strocky]

Sean got it right. And if he was still around, and thought the ESS chip was any good, he'd have put one inside a Transporter. Elegantly.

Supposition overload

 

[brab]

Hi John - at the risk of over-loading you with requests, I have a 'Lakewest' potential addition to the firmware. When I'm not using my Mac mini (via USB), I use a Rotel RCD-965BX CD player as a transport. Works fine and sounds marvellous. However when skipping tracks the first second or so sometimes stutters, or there's a brief silence which cuts off the beginning of the track. If you play the CD straight through there's no glitches, only when skipping to the next or previous track. It's as if the M-DAC needs a few seconds to lock on each time/each track. Not a biggie, but if it could be addressed at some point it'd be cool.

Cheers,


- John

P.S. after the shaky first 24 hours, it's really coming on song now. I'd go as far as saying the best I've yet to hear from digital. Ye olde 16-bit via M-DAC sounds better (on a good recording!) than SACD from my Oppo BDP-83! Can only imagine what's yet to come with the M-PAX Very happy/impressed - well worth the wait!

For those wanting to use a Rotel 965 as transport with a DAC, it works perfectly with no glitches with an Arcam rDAC.

 

[adamlau]

As suggested previously, I too would be interested in additional upgrade paths for the M-DAC...

 

[raysclim]

Hello John and all

does anyone have the specification on the amplification ?
I am looking for data such as output voltage at 32 Ohm , 50 Ohm ...etc
and also the THD % .

This will help me to compare the specification of my ALO continental V2 per below :-

Frequency Response: 40Hz-20KHz +/- 1dB
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: >100dB
Total Harmonic Distortion: 1%
Stereo Crosstalk: >85dB @ 1KHz
Input Impedance 30K ohms Output
Output 300mW@ 32 ohms

Thanks
Raymond Lim

 

[jmbulg]

Hi all,
New to this forum reading through (part of) the interesting MDAC discussions. Is there a sticky or web page where I can (will) find links to
"bitperfect test files"
"firmware updates"
"availability of M-PAX"
"troubleshooting"
and similar FAQs?


Thanks

 

[John_73]

For those wanting to use a Rotel 965 as transport with a DAC, it works perfectly with no glitches with an Arcam rDAC.

It works perfectly well with my DPA PDM One series II, and a Gigaworks 24/192 DAC as well. No glitches at all. According to JohnW nothing can be changed on MDAC to cure this problem so I'll just live with it - I rarely skip tracks anyway so it's only the first track that has the split-second glitch when you first press play. I mainly use USB too with MDAC and that's been absolutely perfect in every respect so far. Just a bit disappointed that nothing can be done, and I didn't really want to have to shell out for a new transport.

 

[PhilCTTE]

Wow all these questions should rename this to Ask John (Ask Jeeves)

Appologies for adding this back in the MDAC thread, but it does relate to the forthcoming MPAX and I would be greatful as I'm sure others would on advice in the proper installation in regards to ensuring that we get the best from these products.


As detailed by Jem Hayward earlier.

Amongst other components this is used

http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/diyhifisupply_dcblokker.html

other items I'm considering is (filter and surge protector)

http://www.olson.co.uk/13a_filter.htm

Any advice on whether these would benefit ?

I was thinking of simplifying my mains connections removing sockets making them switchless and perhaps either implementing something along the lines of what Jem has (but without the remote switching). Or using the olson product above in conjunction with the dcblokker.

As my power amp(s) plasma TV , Active SUB are all on the same ring main I would appreciate the best configuration on how to isolate my digital products
Currently when I switch the plasma on/off my MDAC drops out momentarily.
I'd also like to ensure protection as much as I can to prolong the life of these components .

Cheers.

I want to protect my digital products from other appliances on my ring main and my household supply in general.

I can't afford a proper job of special earthing from a seperate tail from the mains inlet into a seperate consumer unit.

 

[John_73]

Just spotted something interesting when going through some high-res files on my Mac mini. I have the three 'Complete Editions' of 'The Lord of the Rings' soundtracks on DVD-A discs (not everyone's cup of tea granted, but I do like film soundtracks). Using DVD-Explorer I ripped these losslessly to my hard-drive as 24-bit 48kHz WAV files.

Surprisingly 'The Two Towers' files display as 22-bit on the MDACs display no matter what music playback software I use (iTunes+Bitperfect or Audirvana). The other two soundtracks display properly as 24-bit. So I take it there might have been a mistake made when mastering The Two Towers DVD-A release & MDAC is accurately reflecting the true bit-depth?

Also noticed MP3s display as 24-bit. I assume they're being padded from 16-bit for some reason. Again this happens in iTunes+Bitperfect or Audirvana, and any MP3.

I also have several WAV files that were ripped from CD using the HDCD plug-in via dbpoweramp. When I play any of these MDAC displays some of them as 16-bit in the display window, and sometimes flickers between 17-bit & 20-bit, even though they display as 24-bit/44.1 files in the music software windows. Are HDCD files variable bit rate in a 24-bit wrapper?

Odds Bodkins!

- John

P.S. I've run the Audiolab test files (both 16/44.1 and 24/96) for bit perfect output into MDAC and each one has passed so I'm confident everything is set up correctly.

P.P.S For those that don't know 'Bitperfect' is an add-on for Mac's iTunes which improves the sound quality. Wish it hadn't been called that gets a tad confusing when also discussing Bit Perfect output of files...!

 

[TimR]

Hi Tim,

I'll send you a new SBT to try Adrians software patch.

I think it's better to design an isolated USB Hub then messing with modifying units.

I would design the USB isolator for maxim isolation at RF - and also the USB 2.0 HUB enabling 24/96 with Async USB on the SBT - this would be a cheaper option then sending the units to us in CZ for internal modification.

John

Thanks John, I appreciate that, and I fully understand your reasons. I've still got your address in case Adrian's mods don't work out though, so don't put your feet up just yet

But I am hoping the installation process can be simplified once enough people validate that it works for them.

Hi Adrian, I'm really looking forward to giving this a try, and I can only add to the prasie already poured upon you for all your hard work! Do you see this as a "once-only" installation, or is it something we'd have to repeat when the firmware updates itself ? Apologies if you've answered this on the other forum, I'll nip over and read it all in full when I get some "quality" time