flatpopely
Prog Rock/Moderator
The SNP needs to let the electorate know what independance means if they cannot rejoin the EU.
The SNP needs to let the electorate know what independance means if they cannot rejoin the EU.
Bold...I agree.
Your second paragraph...
No, they are not. The tory govt was enabled first by LibDems in 2010, then helped along by Scots in 2015 taking 40 seats from Labour, all the while helped along by the undermining of Miliband and Corbyn. Plenty here slagging off Labour for AS just as they are slagging off the party now. “Labour doesn’t stand for anything”...etc. All of this was well before 2019 and the switch to “enabling the tories in order to get brexit done”, mostly because people were sick to death of hearing about a referendum in 2016 and the stagnation in the country caused from that moment, much of it actually caused by hard remainers trying to overturn the result, even rejecting all chances of a soft brexit.
If you use the ‘Tory enabler’ as a jibe against people who did not vote Labour, yet did not vote Labour yourself, you are a hypocrite or a troll, or both.Then you certainly accept it when people choose to not answer you. Unless you think they owe you something ?
Sorry, have to disagree. If someone is using the ‘Tory enabler’ jibe against someone else, but it is unclear if the are a Tory enabler themselves, it is entirely reasonable to ask for clarity on their position. If that person chooses to offer clarity on their position, that is their right, but they cannot then get bad tempered when people are unclear on their position.It is never relevant. How people vote is a private matter. Someone may choose to say how they voted but it is entirely their choice and you should respect that.
Recently you have demanded people stop using your given name and others piled in to the effect your demand be respected. Well it is, isn’t it...
You should respect that how people vote is a private matter for them and is absolutely none of your business. You should stop making such demands.
That is your right of course, but according to a couple of people on here, that makes you a Tory enabler.No I didn't. At the time I didn't feel there was anyone worth making the walk to the polling station.
So it's independance come what may and damn the consequences?Just like the Tory party made clear just how bad Brexit would turn out to be. That's not how politics works. It's like the apocryphal opening of Mrs Beeton's recipe for jugged hare 'First, catch your hare'.
You’ve misunderstood the sequence of events.Then you certainly accept it when people choose to not answer you. Unless you think they owe you something ?
So it's independance come what may and damn the consequences?
That is your right of course, but according to a couple of people on here, that makes you a Tory enabler.
If Brexit was about English Nationalism, and the fact that 80% of Brexit voters identified as ‘English not British’ suggests strongly that it was, isn’t independence for the other regions of the British Isles a foreseeable consequence?So it's independance come what may and damn the consequences?
Not at all hypocritical.Brian, I’m questioning your claims of , how did you describe it, ‘common sense, decency and a lack of hypocrisy’. Attacking others for something- not voting for the political party you yourself say you hardly ever vote for or more amusingly, eating a lot of greasy food while suggesting others do, looks rather like hypocrisy.
Only with agreement of the tory govt, no guarantee of EU membership and probably years of a struggling economy. Looks like one of those 50 years before the benefits happen, as with brexit and Mogg, apparently.In cold, hard, crude terms the argument that the only 'real' choice is between Labour and Tory has an element of truth, but as Labour continues its creep towards being 'More Tory', there may essentially be no choice at all; you'll get either a Tory government with a blue rosette or a Tory government with a red rosette. If you live in Scotland, however, you have another choice. You can vote for a party that will take your country out of this 'no choice' scenario entirely, and back into a wider union that your country never voted to leave.
Brian, please- you don’t do subtle, you just think you do- it’s beyond you,Not at all hypocritical.
For starters, I don’t eat a lot of greasy food, I don’t go out of my way to avoid it, I try to avoid sugar. My attitude to food is eat whatever you want to eat, it’s nothing to do with me. (You need to look at your sentence there, by the way).
What I’ve said consistently about Labour and elections is don’t complain about a tory govt if you vote in a manner that makes it difficult for Labour to win a majority. I realise it is probably a bit too subtle for some here, it calls for thinking tactically.
No ks.234 it’s you who experience problems with the sequence of events, you’ve quoted the same sentence twice. And both times you answer besides the point, as you always do. But I have gone used to this by now, no worries.You’ve misunderstood the sequence of events.
Have areas of control that have been handed back to Scotland been a success? Health and Education for instance.
Have they been a success in England?
In which case voting for independance on the hope of rejoining the EU is very risky; the SNP need to set out very clearly what the likely outcome of independance is.
I don't think the SNP needs to do any such thing. Boris Johnson is essentially its best recruiting agent. At this stage, all the SNP needs to do is to point out that the English-based ruling party, having taken Scotland out of the EU against the wishes of most of its population, is not making a very good job of mitigating the adverse outcomes of Brexit.
The SNP needs to let the electorate know what independance means if they cannot rejoin the EU.
An interesting series of posts.Just like the Tory party made clear just how bad Brexit would turn out to be. That's not how politics works. It's like the apocryphal opening of Mrs Beeton's recipe for jugged hare 'First, catch your hare'.
Well, you obviously struggle with the concept of tactical voting and FPTP, I was trying to be generous and accepting of your difficulty.Brian, please- you don’t do subtle, you just think you do- it’s beyond you,
Gibberish, if you care to look you will see the sequence of event and where my question comes in that sequence. But as ever, you don’t acquaint yourself with facts before making a false accusation, but that’s what I expect now so I’ll leave it thereNo @ks.234 it’s you who experience problems with the sequence of events, you’ve quoted the same sentence twice. And both times you answer besides the point, as you always do. But I have gone used to this by now, no worries.
The fact remains, you attack others for not voting for a party you have now admitted you virtually never vote for yourself. The tactical voting excuse is the same one proffered the Farage promoter here who votes to keep Labour from office, yet is someone you support on these threads. The contradictions are obvious to everyone and I go back to my question- what is it politically you both have in common?Well, you obviously struggle with the concept of tactical voting and FPTP, I was trying to be generous and accepting of your difficulty.