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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV

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Tony L said:
I strongly suspect it wasn’t the manifesto that lost. Sadly Corbyn turned out to be a clown, just not up to the job. We also need to factor Farage/Banks buying ‘red wall’ votes just to tip the seats Tory. That was a very real factor, the seat down the road from me fell as a result of that, as did many others. There is no doubt Corbyn caused a lot of damage to Labour as by being so feckless he inadvertently re-empowered the right of the party, who a remarkably toxic force and will not give that land-grab back. Another reason I feel the Labour Party is finished. It had an attempt at returning to core function, but totally blew it.
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Agree with the JC comments, particularly re: the damage which is still under-recognised, but what is the party's core function?
 
Kirk said:
…but what is the party's core function?
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I had always assumed Labour was intended to be a centre-left social democratic party. I’m not this is actually true though as in my lifetime it is been remarkably authoritarian and nationalistic. A failure too, remember only Attlee, Wilson and Blair have ever led it to power in 120 years of existence, yet they seem too dumb to grasp it is a systemic problem and to campaign to change it. There are always some very good MPs lurking on the back benches, but there is always something quite ugly about the party too. It is part of the same archaic Westminster establishment that is resisting all calls for real democracy and accountability. It is as much part of the problem as the Tories to my eyes.
 
Brian said:
I agree.
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Brian, Colin and you are both from the same region? Is there any advice you can give to the North East Labour voters Colin describes, who either voted Tory or didn’t get out of bed to vote? How can we get them to actually go out and vote Labour?
 
TheDecameron said:
Brian, Colin and you are both from the same region? Is there any advice you can give to the North East Labour voters Colin describes, who either voted Tory or didn’t get out of bed to vote? How can we get them to actually go out and vote Labour?
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I don’t know where Colin is from, it’s not something I monitor or scrape around to find out.

How people vote in the NE and elsewhere is their individual choice. Some people switched to tory to get brexit done, we will see what happens in 2024 but I reckon even if the NE England voters switch back to Labour, the tories will still get a majority. Those 40 Labour seats you support being lost in Scotland are worth just the same as any other seat.
 
Brian said:
I don’t know where Colin is from, it’s not something I monitor or scrape around to find out.

How people vote in the NE and elsewhere is their individual choice. Some people switched to tory to get brexit done, we will see what happens in 2024 but I reckon even if the NE England voters switch back to Labour, the tories will still get a majority. Those 40 Labour seats you support being lost in Scotland are worth just the same as any other seat.
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Durham Brian, yesterday on the thread, he told us that’s where he votes. Votes to keep Labour out in favour of the Tories. He said Labour voters voted Tory or didn’t show up to the polling station.
How do you think Labour will make up those election losses in time for 2024? If they get enough of the seats back from the Tories in the Red Wall areas, they could be in with a shout for an SNP coalition but it’ll take a bit of work. Have you ever canvassed?
 
If Labour is going to win back any seats anywhere it is going to have to develop a clear message around what is stands for and a narrative to get that message across. Relying on Labour loyalty will not work. Labour is in terminal decline because of self inflicted wounds administered by a controlling NEC whose only tactic is to keep picking at the wound and to move to the right. If Labour cannot develop it’s own philosophy, if it can’t create it’s own unique sense of purpose, if it can’t recognise what people in this country really need, it is not worthy of of being called The Opposition. At the moment Labour looks weak and bereft of ideas.

Labour needs to work out what it stands for and then it needs to stand up and shout about it proud and strong.
 
TheDecameron said:
Durham Brian, yesterday on the thread, he told us that’s where he votes. Votes to keep Labour out in favour of the Tories. He said Labour voters voted Tory or didn’t show up to the polling station.
How do you think Labour will make up those election losses in time for 2024? If they get enough of the seats back from the Tories in the Red Wall areas, they could be in with a shout for an SNP coalition but it’ll take a bit of work. Have you ever canvassed?
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Looks likes a bit of a mission...

I don’t care where Colin lives or votes.

It is not for me to have ideas for how Labour will make up losses in the NE or anywhere else.

Why would I have ever canvassed for any political party and why are you interested in whether I have canvassed?

I’ve said more than once a new party formed by centre left Labour MPs ( and others ) is needed.

I’ve explained why no serious UK party can enter into a coalition with the nationalist SNP. You must have missed both of those last comments even though they were very recent posts.
 
Labour needs to develop a coherent strategy for running the country. One that shows how socialist values can inform an effective and successful economic model. Unless and until the idea that the Tories are the only economically competent party can be dislodged from the common perception, Labour will continue to be seen as well-meaning ideologues, to be supported only when times allow such luxuries.

This does not mean moving to the right and adopting Tory economic policies, it means showing that there's another way.
 
Brian said:
Looks likes a bit of a mission...

I don’t care where Colin lives or votes.

It is not for me to have ideas for how Labour will make up losses in the NE or anywhere else.

Why would I have ever canvassed for any political party and why are you interested in whether I have canvassed?

I’ve said more than once a new party formed by centre left Labour MPs ( and others ) is needed.

I’ve explained why no serious UK party can enter into a coalition with the nationalist SNP. You must have missed both of those last comments even though they were very recent posts.
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We’re ready to help when you’re ready Brian but your people need to 1. get out and vote and 2. not vote Tory.
 
TheDecameron said:
We’re ready to help when you’re ready Brian but your people need to 1. get out and vote and 2. not vote Tory.
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Also, if anyone is genuinely interested in promoting Labour, rather than just Trolling from a comfy chair, then the Labour Party will also need people to become active, to canvas, to knock on doors, to post leaflets.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Labour needs to develop a coherent strategy for running the country. One that shows how socialist values can inform an effective and successful economic model. Unless and until the idea that the Tories are the only economically competent party can be dislodged from the common perception, Labour will continue to be seen as well-meaning ideologues, to be supported when only times allow such luxuries.

This does not mean moving to the right and adopting Tory economic policies, it means showing that there's another way.
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When was the last time anyone demonstrated that "socialist values can inform an effective and successful economic model" in the UK? The 1960s? Across Europe, there aren't many socialist parties in government, so it's not as if we can look there for examples of how to make that argument.
 
ciderglider said:
When was the last time anyone demonstrated that "socialist values can inform an effective and successful economic model" in the UK? The 1960s? Across Europe, there aren't many socialist parties in government, so it's not as if we can look there for examples of how to make that argument.
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The Tory Party has adopted a leftish economic policy abandoned by Labour, one of public spending and government investment.
 
ciderglider said:
When was the last time anyone demonstrated that "socialist values can inform an effective and successful economic model" in the UK? The 1960s? Across Europe, there aren't many socialist parties in government, so it's not as if we can look there for examples of how to make that argument.
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Why do we need to look to the past for examples, though? The Vote Leave campaign showed us how powerful and attractive an idea a positive future can be. I'm not suggesting for a moment that Labour adopts the misinformation, lies and underhandedness of the leave campaign, but that people will vote in their droves for 'sunlit uplands'. So let's give them some. Things like UBI, freeing people to fulfil their ambitions, being creative, generating wealth in new ways. Not unicorns, but just not the tired old dog-eat-dog we're used to.

If you want a three word slogan, how about: 'A better way'.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Why do we need to look to the past for examples, though? The Vote Leave campaign showed us how powerful and attractive an idea a positive future can be. I'm not suggesting for a moment that Labour adopts the misinformation, lies and underhandedness of the leave campaign, but that people will vote in their droves for 'sunlit uplands'. So let's give them some. Things like UBI, freeing people to fulfil their ambitions, being creative, generating wealth in new ways. Not unicorns, but just not the tired old dog-eat-dog we're used to.

If you want a three word slogan, how about: 'A better way'.
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“A Real Alternative”
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Why do we need to look to the past for examples, though? The Vote Leave campaign showed us how powerful and attractive an idea a positive future can be. I'm not suggesting for a moment that Labour adopts the misinformation, lies and underhandedness of the leave campaign, but that people will vote in their droves for 'sunlit uplands'. So let's give them some. Things like UBI, freeing people to fulfil their ambitions, being creative, generating wealth in new ways. Not unicorns, but just not the tired old dog-eat-dog we're used to.

If you want a three word slogan, how about: 'A better way'.
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Yes, the Leave campaign did show that you could win people over to a risky proposition, but I'm not sure they were offering us a positive future, more a return to past certainties. And they had the Devil's own 3 word slogan - "Take Back Control".
 
ks.234 said:
The Tory Party has adopted a leftish economic policy abandoned by Labour, one of public spending and government investment.
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It remains to be seen how much they’ll spend on “levelling up”. It will turn out to be another vacuous slogan from Johnson’s gag writers in No.10 because Sunak will regretfully have to announce the cupboard is bare at budget time. All the money- hundreds of billions- went to friends and family in the VIP Lane and there’s nothing left.
 
ks.234 said:
Also, if anyone is genuinely interested in promoting Labour, rather than just Trolling from a comfy chair, then the Labour Party will also need people to become active, to canvas, to knock on doors, to post leaflets.
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How about asking people what they want instead of telling them what they’re going to get?
 
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