Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV
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Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
There isn’t going to be PR in my lifetime. That’s the lasting legacy of the ‘progressive’ LibDems. Bloody awful party, worse than the tories, imo.
If Labour needs to be split or whatever, it needs to get on with it, though as I said earlier, what I want to support is a centre-left party. I don’t care if it is Labour, some split of Labour or an entirely new party.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
notaclue
pfm Member
It would certainly seem sensible for Labour to look for someone with a track record of being a popular politician when picking the next leader. I mean, that's why the Tories picked Johnson.
Starmer is a dud when it comes to being a popular politician. Lacks the needed skills and his personality is not cut out for it. The polls show that the more people see of Sir Keir, the less they like him. Labour ought to realise that soon and get rid. But they probably won't and we'll see a weak leader fending off lots of internal criticism and another election defeat in 2024. Probably a 79-seat majority for the Tories. Starmerists will view the fact he didn't lose as badly as Corbyn as a success...
Whether Burnham could actually win an election is another matter.
doctorf
left footed right winger
Interesting comment in The Times;
If labour had voted for May’s withdrawal deal... May would have been PM for 2019 election there would be no Boris,no Brexit and no Red Wall. But Starmer et al knew best played hardball and campaigned for a second referendum this directly led to Boris becoming leader,a landslide election win,hard brexit and loss of the northern and midlands seats for a generation. Well played to the remain labour MP’s you’ve played an absolute blinder!
Ignore the will of the voters at your peril.
If labour had voted for May’s withdrawal deal... May would have been PM for 2019 election there would be no Boris,no Brexit and no Red Wall. But Starmer et al knew best played hardball and campaigned for a second referendum this directly led to Boris becoming leader,a landslide election win,hard brexit and loss of the northern and midlands seats for a generation. Well played to the remain labour MP’s you’ve played an absolute blinder!
Ignore the will of the voters at your peril.
notaclue
pfm Member
It's (literally) all he knows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Burnham
Which is something that might not go down well with those 'working people' types that Labour needs to win back. The ones who enjoy Brexit and flags and stuff like that. They would probably prefer someone who has had a 'proper job'. Like being a journalist, it would seem...
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
And don't think Brexit and what you voted / campaigned for doesn't matter or won't matter any time soon.
Tony L
Administrator
The problem is that the alternative was capitulating to the xenophobic far-right/fascist rhetoric from both the likes of Farage, Yaxley Lennon, and from May herself who had unleashed ‘go home’ vans as part of her utterly toxic ‘hostile environment’ etc. Plus the Windrush debacle where her racism actually killed people. Decent people simply can not go along with this far-right shit. It is impossible for us to do so. Sorry.
In 20/20 hindsight we may, by chance, have ended up in a slightly better nightmare than the one we are currently in, but capitulation is simply impossible to comprehend. History has many lessons about turning a blind eye to far-right racist/xenophobic rhetoric and many of us were not prepared to ignore them. We had to fight with whatever tools we had at every single step. We are still fighting.
No it hasn't at least in real terms. Wealth has not been created assuming the housing stock has remained essentially the same. The banks have printed some money and that has redistributed wealth within the UK from non-housing wealth like labour to those that own houses. For the UK as a whole printing money without creating wealth has devalued the currency. Preventing this type of socially destructive behaviour is a job for politicians which they have increasingly ceased to do over the last few decades. Both labour and conservative. It is not exactly difficult to address given it didn't used to happen and so if Starmer and labour were to start talking about the problem and how to they would address it...
doctorf
left footed right winger
Well more fool you.
You’re obsessed with alt right bollocks.
I’ve got a house in Spain and a daughter who lives in Amsterdam, so a staunch pro European, but I accept the result of the referendum and move on. The Labour left were also pro Brexit, but couldn’t admit to it, so were left fudging a remain viewpoint.
Johnson is an opportunist, and was never a real Brexiteer. He just saw it as chance to become PM if he could convince the majority to vote out.
Labour have blown itself to bits, and I doubt they will recover in our lifetimes.
And having no real opposition is not what anyone should wish for.
doctorf
left footed right winger
Desperate men do desperate things.Sir Keir has just sacked Angela Rayner.
It was all her fault.
Starmer is rapidly becoming a liability. In denial and panicking. Only a matter of time until someone comes out and says he must go. My money would be on McDonnell or Abbott.
droodzilla
pfm Member
Christ almighty, pathetic! Obvious scapegoating and a panicked attempt to be seen to "do something". It will fix nothing.
Don't have much time for Rayner since she abandoned any principles she had to climb the greasy pole, but this move reflects very badly on Starmer.
Don't have much time for Rayner since she abandoned any principles she had to climb the greasy pole, but this move reflects very badly on Starmer.
House prices have gone up due to a shortage of supply, they have risen faster this year. This is a fact. Houses with gardens have rocketed.
I don’t disagree with your other points but they are irrelevant to the point I was making.
Tony L
Administrator
WTAF? I clearly need to go watch some news (I’m watching the F1 qualification on C4).
I dislike Rayner, cannot stand the way she plays to out dated northern stereotypes as if we are all ‘gobby & speak our minds’ etc. It does seem a bizarre piece of timing though, almost too soon. I wonder who will come in, probably some ex Blairites?
I am pretty past caring now but am finding the whole thing rather amusing.
Seanm
pfm Member
I guess the sensible thing would be to look at those places that limited the damage or made gains, and ask what Labour have been doing right in those places, and think about how those things might be developed in other areas and nationally.
This probably seems sensible to the point of banality, but it won’t happen because the right wing of the party will stop it from happening. And that leaves us back at the 40 year old hot takes.
I don’t think you get beyond the tired old answers to Labour’s problems until you can accept the eternal truth of one of the oldest and most tired: the solution to Labour’s problems is to beat the right. It is the right that chokes every novel solution, and prevents the real problems from even being recognised.
All the interesting conversations I’m seeing at the moment have to do with how the left can let the bulk of Labour members and supporters know about how the right are blocking progress.
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