Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV

[notaclue]

Look on the bright side. In about 25 year time, the Tories will be desperately searching for the 'new Boris' and will likely be going through a selection of entirely unsuitable idiots as leaders. Anyone vaguely odd or stupid will be hailed as being the new Boris.

This will present Labour with a small window of opportunity to win back Hartlepool.

Hurrah!

 

[Seanm]

I’m certain the penny is dropping. I’m exactly that ‘soft left/centre/green’ he cites and I’d not touch Labour with the shitty end of a very long stick!

I’m not sure this is the right take-away! For me the point of the thread is that the right wing faction that dominates Labour is in many ways unrepresentative of the party, and owes its dominance partly to its allies in the media, who keep most Labour members in the dark about who’s running the show. On the other hand I’m not sure it’s the wrong take-away either, because these people really are completely dominant, and the left have proved pretty powerless against them.

Past caring really.

 

[Woodface]

Interesting that Sheffield has swung away from Labour but in the direction of Green & LD. Still a lot of hatred towards Tories but we now have a blue councillor.

Hillsborough ward has gone Green, traditionally a solid working class area but the MCs are starting to infiltrate so having an effect.

The Tories as the party of the working classes is something I never thought I’d see.

 

[matt j]

One obvious problem seems to me is that the left have too many factions with varying degrees of leftist ideas- from the Jez's/Wolfie Smiths to the Tony's, uniting them under one party seems to be impossible now. Where as the Tories do a very good job of appealing to pretty much all of the right from the flat out racists to the more moderate centre right people, they all seem willing to vote Tory.

Are people on the left less willing to hold their nose and vote for a party that doesn't represent all of their values and sacrifice any chance of a left(ish) government in the process?

 

[Seanm]

Interesting that Sheffield has swung away from Labour but in the direction of Green & LD. Still a lot of hatred towards Tories but we now have a blue councillor.

Hillsborough ward has gone Green, traditionally a solid working class area but the MCs are starting to infiltrate so having an effect.

The Tories as the party of the working classes is something I never thought I’d see.

It’s more the historical norm than the exception. Certainly nothing new.

 

[Seanm]

One obvious problem seems to me is that the left have too many factions with varying degrees of leftist ideas- from the Jez's/Wolfie Smiths to the Tony's, uniting them under one party seems to be impossible now. Where as the Tories do a very good job of appealing to pretty much all of the right from the flat out racists to the more moderate centre right people, they all seem willing to vote Tory.

Are people on the left less willing to hold their nose and vote for a party that doesn't represent all of their values and sacrifice any chance of a left(ish) government in the process?

I think the left have shown that yes, they are. What they’re increasingly not prepared to do is come out for a party that offers them nothing at all and explicitly stomps on everything they believe in while giving them the finger.

 

[Woodface]

One obvious problem seems to me is that the left have too many factions with varying degrees of leftist ideas- from the Jez's/Wolfie Smiths to the Tony's, uniting them under one party seems to be impossible now. Where as the Tories do a very good job of appealing to pretty much all of the right from the flat out racists to the more moderate centre right people, they all seem willing to vote Tory.

Are people on the left less willing to hold their nose and vote for a party that doesn't represent all of their values and sacrifice any chance of a left(ish) government in the process?

I’d say yes & working class people can be racists too. The Tories are really good at Xenophobia.

 

[russel]

Salford seems to have bucked the national trend against Labour:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c.../what-salford-local-council-election-20439020

I wonder if the mayoral election (result due tomorrow) will go the same way.

In fact, Greater Manchester in general looks better for Labour than most of the country:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ws/local-elections-2021-live-results-20542741

Will be interesting to see how Andy Burnham does. Maybe showing some fight and standing up to the Tories isn't such a bad idea.

Keeping it local initiatives seem quite good at getting support for Labour, rebuilding from the ground up seems it’s best option plus it can keep an eye on social media memes which the right wing have weaponised in a way the left have not understood.

 

[Woodface]

Salford has changed somewhat, Media City etc.

 

[Woodface]

Gosh -- has Great Cheetham Street become gentrified?

Gentrified is probably the wrong term as this is still Greater Manchester

The area is full of media types & I have been to many a cracking do over that way. MPA Xmas do is rather legendary.

 

[Dave H.]

Just listened to the R4 news - Labour apparently to have a policy review in the wake of Hartlepool debacle. 2 comments from Labour figures (IIRC an MP whose name I didn’t catch) and Mandelson.

Apparent aim of the review: crush the left.

Nice to see a fresh new approach being tried.

 

[deej92]

I wasn’t being serious about Burgon, I think he’s a total idiot but if it keeps the lefties happy then that would be lovely.

The lefties should go and form a new party. Labour would surely be finished as a political force though if they split.

 

[deej92]

One positive for Labour is their excellent performance in Wales, with the party set to match its best-ever Senedd election result.

 

[droodzilla]

One positive for Labour is their excellent performance in Wales, with the party set to match its best-ever Senedd election result.

Also:

Greater Manchester
Salford
Preston

All areas where the Labour Party has shown a bit of fight and stood up for the people it represents.

 

[deej92]

Also:

Greater Manchester
Salford
Preston

All areas where the Labour Party has shown a bit of fight and stood up for the people it represents.

Yes, I work in Wigan and Labour have done very well again round there. I’ve worked in Blackburn also in the past and a strong showing there also.

Labour are far from finished everywhere and that has to be remembered. Clearly a very disappointing result overall in England though.

What these elections have shown though (if we didn’t know already) is that we live in a very divided UK. Tories dominating England, Labour strong in Wales and SNP doing well again in Scotland. Something has to give.

 

[Seanm]

Also:

Greater Manchester
Salford
Preston

All areas where the Labour Party has shown a bit of fight and stood up for the people it represents.

Possibly areas that aren’t yet aware of what Corbyn did to the party.

 

[tqineil]

https://twitter.com/carolJhedges/status/1390941565972062209?s=20

 

[mandryka]

Gentrified is probably the wrong term as this is still Greater Manchester

The area is full of media types & I have been to many a cracking do over that way. MPA Xmas do is rather legendary.

Great Cheetham Street, Broughton Lane, Salford 7 -- when I was a kid it was poor, and in places not totally safe.

 

[Tony L]

https://twitter.com/carolJhedges/status/1390941565972062209?s=20

A decent result despite Labour’s attempts to disrupt local process.

The thing to take away from this one is the Tory mayoral candidate got just 4% of the vote, which is half of the Greens and a quarter of the LDs (there was also a ‘Liberal’ candidate that took 7%), let alone the Lab vote of 38%. Liverpool has always been an area that won’t buy any Tory bullshit, and I’m very pleased to see that continuing. Stats from Wikipedia.

 

[TheDecameron]

Great result for Mark Drakeford’s leadership in Wales and a strong performance for Adam Price and Plaid too. Should keep the rancid Tories under control.