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Labour Leader: Keir Starmer IV

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Brian said:
Not arguing. Who are the left leaning Labour MPs who need not be dead is the question.
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There are a lot of good people in Labour, but none of them could possibly get say the Brexit ultras and folk like me onboard. The same applies to the class warriorism or authoritarianism that exists to such a high degree in the Labour party. For every non-Tory voter it appeals to another will run a mile. It just isn’t possible to bridge the gap as logically we all belong in entirely different parties.

The overriding priority has to be to install a functional representative democracy in the UK. What we are seeing now is structural/systemic failure. Maybe failure by design as the FPTP system was after all designed by Tories for Tories. This scenario will continue rapidly downwards unless the whole progressive alternative to the Tories unite on a cross-party PR platform. I can see no other way out. Talking about leadership changes in an obviously failing party is simply rearranging deckchairs on a sunken ship. Unless they get behind real electoral reform there is no hope for Labour. They are over.
 
deej92 said:
I’ve seen tweets from Richard Burgon about the need for the Labour leadership to “urgently change direction and “championing the popular policies in our recent manifesto”.

When you look at 2017, he may have a point, as Corbyn did better than anyone since Blair, but then he won against a weak PM in Theresa May and then suffered Labour’s worst election defeat in years in 2019.

I don’t think a return to Corbynism is the answer. Labour has lost touch with the working-class voter in a small town, who voted Brexit and has concerns about immigration. The party needs to reconnect with these voters and its traditional roots and work out what it stands for. It has increasingly become a party for the middle class and metropolitan city voters. The type that read The Guardian.

Boris and his dodgy texts to Dyson and his sleaze isn’t the people’s person that some think he is, but it’s Labour’s job to convince them and come up with a better alternative. They’re failing miserably currently and too many people in the party are in denial about it.
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Theresa May won the election & 42% of the vote; the most since Thatcher in 79 (in Tory terms). You cannot quote Corbyn’s share without putting it in context.

The Tories are not really hiding who they are or what they stand for; that is the frightening thing!
 
Traditionally, Labour would promise to outspend Tories by a mile, and present this as restoring some of the services people expect.
Covid has changed all the traditional rules. The Tories can borrow and spend like there's no tomorrow, and people just accept it.

So what does that leave for Labour?

Long term vision? Well, they have none.
 
Woodface said:
Theresa May won the election & 42% of the vote; the most since Thatcher in 79 (in Tory terms). You cannot quote Corbyn’s share without putting it in context.

The Tories are not really hiding who they are or what they stand for; that is the frightening thing!
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Yes, both Corbyn and May had a huge share of the votes in 2017, maybe helped by the complete collapse of UKIP support.

The Tories certainly aren’t hiding who they are or what they stand for but people know what they’re voting for. The same can’t be said for Labour!
 
Jesus wept:

https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1390691539224080390?s=21

I catch myself feeling sorry for him, because he’s so awful at this, and it’s not really his fault he’s got nothing to offer. But then I remember it actually is his fault: he made a strategic decision to stand for nothing and offer nothing and pretend that everything they’d had to offer before was dog****, sorry about that. So he’s getting what he deserves, really, and the fact that he’s getting it from the same media toss pots that put him up to it is fine too.
 
deej92 said:
Yes, both Corbyn and May had a huge share of the votes in 2017, maybe helped by the complete collapse of UKIP support.

The Tories certainly aren’t hiding who they are or what they stand for but people know what they’re voting for. The same can’t be said for Labour!
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I think it is impossible for Labour to effectively campaign at present. All people are interested in is when they can go to the pub & go on holiday. As an aside the country’s net worth has actually increased by 4% post pandemic due to rising house values.

This is the problem. But why not give Burgon a go or Ken Livingston. This will appease the left & they can crack on. People like me can still vote Labour while those less fortunate will vote Tory. Crazy world we live in.
 
The only way Labour stand a chance is with some Trojan horse shenanigans, they need a gobby mouth piece spouting popularist shit to play Johnson at his own game, whilst having a Cummings esque puppet master behind the scenes with the real policies set to go if they win.

Going full on left wing and calling out Tories for what they are is a sure fire way of becoming completely dead and buried because people just aren't bothered.
 
h.g. said:
What happened was that the crash had not begun in earnest. People's standard of living was pretty much the same, services degraded but still running, businesses less healthy but most still running, covid actions distorting the background levels,... Who cares who is governing the country while things are pretty much the same?
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I guess the post WW1 depression in Germany explains the outbreak of socialism that took hold. Hoping a depression will force people to think rationally when they are under duress is not really founded on the way people behave, stressed people behave irrationally which may explain why Boris is popular despite the fact that even the most cursory rational examination his behaviour should lead people to conclude he shouldn’t be left unsupervised with a burnt out match.
 
Woodface said:
I think it is impossible for Labour to effectively campaign at present. All people are interested in is when they can go to the pub & go on holiday. As an aside the country’s net worth has actually increased by 4% post pandemic due to rising house values.

This is the problem. But why not give Burgon a go or Ken Livingston. This will appease the left & they can crack on. People like me can still vote Labour while those less fortunate will vote Tory. Crazy world we live in.
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The pandemic has certainly made it more difficult for Starmer. No easy job being an opposition party right now, trying to oppose but at the same time not being too critical of a government during a time of national crisis and showing unity. It’s a no win situation.

On your other point, I’m not sure going all out left-wing is the answer to Labour’s woes. My view on Burgon is he’s a liability and Livingston is well, a nutter. People just put their fingers in their ears at all the shouting from the left at Boris. It won’t wash. Labour need to be a lot more grown up than that. Rather than telling people they’re wrong for voting Tory and patronising them, they’ve got to win them over with their own arguments not just sniping from the sidelines.

Another problem for Labour is losing Scotland and I can’t see them getting it back!
 
Hilarious interview on LBC this morning with a labour spokesperson who lost her seat in the last GE, Laura or Lauren something or other. After a massive loss in Hartlepool (16% swing), she piles into the conservatives and basically said Corbyn is the answer. Well, that went well didn’t it! The UK electorate firmly rejected the labour left and look likely to reject the centre / right as well. It would appear they just don’t like labour full stop.

The infighting is shameful and completely irresponsible as their job is to provide an effective opposition. Zero chance. Boris can do what he likes.
 
Salford seems to have bucked the national trend against Labour:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c.../what-salford-local-council-election-20439020

I wonder if the mayoral election (result due tomorrow) will go the same way.

In fact, Greater Manchester in general looks better for Labour than most of the country:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ws/local-elections-2021-live-results-20542741

Will be interesting to see how Andy Burnham does. Maybe showing some fight and standing up to the Tories isn't such a bad idea.
 
deej92 said:
The pandemic has certainly made it more difficult for Starmer. No easy job being an opposition party right now, trying to oppose but at the same time not being too critical of a government during a time of national crisis and showing unity. It’s a no win situation.

On your other point, I’m not sure going all out left-wing is the answer to Labour’s woes. My view on Burgon is he’s a liability and Livingston is well, a nutter. People just put their fingers in their ears at all the shouting from the left at Boris. It won’t wash. Labour need to be a lot more grown up than that. Rather than telling people they’re wrong for voting Tory and patronising them, they’ve got to win them over with their own arguments not just sniping from the sidelines.

Another problem for Labour is losing Scotland and I can’t see them getting it back!
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I wasn’t being serious about Burgon, I think he’s a total idiot but if it keeps the lefties happy then that would be lovely.
 
Seeker_UK said:
And yet there's calls on here for the left to split away and set up their own party. If that view is representative of the left of the Labour Party, then win win, surely?
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I can only speak for myself.
I support a Labour split.
But only after PR.
So Labour can't split (yet).
Chicken/egg.
 
“A London-based bourgeoisie, with the support of brigades of woke social media warriors, has effectively captured the party. They mean well, of course, but their politics – obsessed with identity, division and even tech utopianism – have more in common with those of Californian high society than the kind of people who voted in Hartlepool yesterday,”

Oh dear.
 
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