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Is Naim snake oil?

Rk19 said:
Went the other way . Had Quads. Heard Naim and wow. So much more “life”. Exchanged for a 32. Now a 552. Each to their own
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i had the same experience. 34/303 and then an A&R A60 amplifier - I really wanted to like them but felt very let down by both and then heard Naim and it lit up all the right sensors in my pleasure centre - so i bought a second hand 42/110 combo and was off to the races without ever looking back
 
Rk19 said:
Went the other way . Had Quads. Heard Naim and wow. So much more “life”. Exchanged for a 32. Now a 552. Each to their own
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We don't all hear the same. One man's life is another "jesus, who dragged their nails down a blackboard?" I'm in the latter camp with most Naim gear. The house sound talked about in the CB/Olive period is still there to my ears in the 500 series. I'm not religious about this, I just don't like it, It doesn't make me right or anyone else wrong.
 
i also think a lot of people are offended by the 'naim thing' because of their argument about the importance of the power supply and grounding etc - it's COMMON SENSE that the power supply has nothing whatsoever to do with the sound - nor do amplifiers affect the sound in any way - it's just a bunch of electrical bits. 'technology' has no sound of it's own right??? :p
 
ERICLIMPIT said:
Yes they are 105.3 well done for Identifying them, you win a teapot.

Lovely things the Kefs were too (I recently sold them) but they do need a fair bit of space, so my Yamaha NS1000 are now my main speaks.

Not sure if that has anything to do with Naim though...
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What it has to do with is a matter of taste. 105.3's are some of bloatiest, harshest crap ever put into the high end speaker market, the "beginning of the end" of KEF before their resurgence (with the Muon/blade/ls50 generation) a few years ago.

That being said Yammy NS1000's are lovely so.....there you go.
 
Natara said:
I haven't had as much audio gear as some of you and haven''t owned much Naim CB or Olive gear except a Nat 01 tuner, Olive 250 and CB 32.5/HC/110 but I find the 'Classic' series of Naim amps to be the best made of any brand I have ever owned or handled.
There are myths that are perpetuated over again, until you get to a 282/250 you don't have to have a separate psu the 200 power amp and below can power any pre from a 282 down without a psu above that you are not sold an amp and then told you now need a separate psu you need one from the start.
IMO purchased used Naim Audio is exceptional value and that is why if you take care you will never lose out when selling it on, I own a 282/300 and certainly not well heeled or super rich.
Lastly you don't have to like it and you don't have to buy it I didn't much care for the Quad 303 I owned and the various valve bits I have owned I found too polite and bass shy for my taste but I don' t feel the need to keep telling everyone how shit it was.
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Rk19 said:
Went the other way . Had Quads. Heard Naim and wow. So much more “life”. Exchanged for a 32. Now a 552. Each to their own
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Just to quote these experiences. Add me to the list as well. As I have mentioned earlier, I have listened to the Quad 66/606 and matching CDP driving Harbeth SHL5 Plus/non-Plus on numerous occasions (4 to 5 times) and I preferred the Naim 202/200 driving the same speakers..

I'm not sure how the Quad 909 would sound like. The 606 gave a big bold sound but was lacking in control. There are few here who gave a good description on the sonic traits of the Naim and I wouldn't repeat it here. The Quad sounded poor to me though I don't feel the need to tell the whole world they sounded like crap (since I'm sure there will be many who will think otherwise).

Edit : Okay I was exaggerating on that one. The Quad doesn't sound like crap. It just sounded different from the Naim, and I dig the Naim sound more.
 
Arkless Electronics said:
"His approach to B&O was clearly determined almost entirely by reputation and marketing" Exchange B&O for any brand of choice and that, unfortunately, sums up the whole world of audiophilia... Take a competent product in a "black box" and peoples interest in it will be almost wholly dependent on what name badge you stick on it.
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I think that's very true. When I bought my Naim kit I was primarily on the search for my first CD player.

My interest in Naim was almost completely determined by marketing and reputation, garnered through glowing magazine reviews in the UK press of the time.

HiFi 'knowledge' so to speak, was found principally in the HiFi press in those days - no internet, no online chat forums, no easy access to AES papers etc.

So I sought Naim out - only 1 dealer for the whole state in those days - liked it, and after a lot of auditioning bought the CDI.

Again, based largely on reviews for the initial capturing of interest, I auditioned, liked, and purchased the rest of the system as a follow up.

it should also be said that it was very difficult to cross shop - you couldn't for example cross shop Naim CD players and amplifiers, with say B&W speakers stocked by a totally different dealership, - unless you could arrange a home demo to have all the kit in one place at the same time.

So one bought largely on the basis of reviews of kit that garnered the most kudos cross checked across different magazine publications, and personal audition.

As such, there is little doubt that marketing, and the impression it creates in the mind of a potential customer, is in the first instance at least, what largely creates interest in the competent black box, and also helps to create the badge or brand 'identity'.

By way of contrast to my Naim exposure through magazine articles, and subsequent purchase, my first exposure to B&O was coming across one of their stores in the centre of the city - I absolutely loved the design - but the UK magazine reviews were always dismissive of them being a 'lifestyle' brand, and not for the 'serious' audiophile, so I pretty much didn't bother to investigate further.

Indeed, at the height of my 'Prat" and "Flat Earth" years with Naim, I briefly heard the then new Beolab 5's when they were first released, on a casual listen, and thought them 'bland' 'lifestyle' speakers.

Decades later, I still have my Naim SBL's, but the electronics were sold off some years ago in favour of 9000ES Series Sony components when I branched into AV, which in turn have given way to, surprise, surprise, B&O products.

Back in the day in the lead up to my Naim purchase I used to buy 3 or 4 HiFi magazines a month; I haven't bought a HiFi mag now in probably the best part of 8 - 10 years, as they are good to fill ones mind with dissatisfaction with what one has, Hifi journalistic prose and exaggeration to sell magazines being what it is, but not much else.

So yes, Marketing plays a huge part in decisions to investigate, buy, or not buy kit, whether we think we are influenced by it or not.

However, one usually learns over time what works and what doesn't in HiFi; sometimes by hard experience, and others by reading from qualified 'experts' in the field, such as Dr. Floyd Toole, Dr. Sean Olive, Dr, David Moulton, Dr, Geoff Martin etc - which writings it must be said, along with my own amateur efforts at blind, AB, level matched (measured) comparisons of kit taught me far more than any magazine article ever did.

Cheers
 
I do wish that most posters here would understand that the issue isn't really whether NAIM sounds better or worse than other kit. We all know that sound quality is mostly about taste/perception ( and maybe expectation..)
I'll repeat that I've not seen anyone in this thread 'rubbish' the NAIM sound, or the build quality, etc. Admittedly, some (me included) have queried the validity of the PRAT obsession re sound. Others have stated that they love/hate the NAIM sound. But that's a view.. not a 'bashing'.
What people are querying, from the OP onwards, is the whole product 'ethos'. IOW. Is the whole PSU upgrade regime really the way to go? etc.

Many are convinced. Others aren't.
 
yuckyamson said:
What it has to do with is a matter of taste. 105.3's are some of bloatiest, harshest crap ever put into the high end speaker market, the "beginning of the end" of KEF before their resurgence (with the Muon/blade/ls50 generation) a few years ago.

That being said Yammy NS1000's are lovely so.....there you go.
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I would call them one of the finest speakers KEF ever made personally. You obviously haven't heard them with the right equipment.
 
Last night I did a Google search 'Naim Bashing'. An interest result. I had a hoped that I might find a youTube video of such a vile act. Nothing like it.

Looking at the standard search this thread is prominent and also several from the Naim forum. Conclusion Naim owners who mingle with that forum are exposed to the concept of bashing. Just like PRaT and other recurring descriptors it is part of Naim owners thinking. Their perception of being Naim.

Mull and others have said they see no bashing and there isn't any here. Perhaps to the sensitised Naim owner there is.

If you have listened to Naim and thought, I like that, then best of luck. I was demonstrated it years ago when I went to buy a Rega Planar 2 or 3. After the Rega transaction this demo wasmade to impress I am sure left me with the urge to leave the room ASAP. Not my idea of pleasure. I hadn't any preconcept or expectation.
 
Last post but one sounds about right. Nothing wrong with the product, if you like the sound. Price is a nonsense unless you like the Stella Artois "reassuringly expensive" approach. In addition, once the initial new purchase has taken a hit, the used prices stay high. Used prices are pretty stable for most used hifi though, I can't think of any brands that carry on depreciating after the initial couple of years.
 
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