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Is Naim snake oil?

F

Furrowedbrow

pfm Member
Been thinking of upgrading from my trusty Quad 909, so have started looking at Naim amps. I must say I find some of their recommendations and ethos a bit suspect, such as:

1) Needing to use their own speaker cables for impedance matching: Surely the amplifiers are designed to handle complex impedances of many different speakers, so why is the low impedance cable so key!? Am I missing something here?

2) Spending thousands on a power amp and then having upgrade PSU’s which look just like very simple regulated supplies. Surely an amp costing a few thousand should already come with a decent PSU, if it really has a big impact on sound quality? The NAPSC I looked at contained a very basic ‘hobby electronics’ PSU using LM317 regs. Simple stuff and very inexpensive, so no idea whay this can’t be included in say a NAC202 to start with.

3) This doesn’t apply to just Naim I guess, but for digital sources, no amount of preamp can be better than not having a preamp at all! I’ve been running the Quad directly from a Dac and it sounds fantastic. Is a Naim preamp really needed to get the best from their power amps?

Happy to hear your thoughts.
 
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You’re thinking of upgrading and you’ve found a brand that you find ‘suspect’ and uses ‘hobby electronics’. Tell us about a brand that impresses and makes you want to spend money. It’d be a far more interesting read.
 
mjw said:
You’re thinking of upgrading and you’ve found a brand that you find ‘suspect’ and uses ‘hobby electronics’. Tell us about a brand that impresses and makes you want to spend money. It’d be a far more interesting read.
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Sorry for the boring thread! . Ok, well the Quad Artera power amp looks like a decent evolution of the 909. Quad have come in for some flack since being chinese owned, but I believe their engineering is generally good and they offer value for money. The Artera has been very highly reviewed too, however they’re not ‘fashionable’ these days so often get overlooked by the hifi press. Rega impress me too. What other amp brands do you think are worthy of investigation?
 
Furrowedbrow said:
Happy to have my ears prove me wrong, but even then my engineering knowledge might win out and would probably stop me opening my wallet in the Naim dealer!
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In that case pop along to your local dealer and use those ears. You can then make an informed choice based upon what YOU think, rather than relying on the opinions of other folks.
 
If there's an Audio T near you I found them to be very helpful, they even leant me a Supernait to try for a week.

Best option is to buy secondhand though as you would be unlikely to make any major loss.
 
Snake oil??..you need to go listen for yourself. You can do this relatively safely as no-one will force you to buy it if you don't like it :)
If you do, pay the money and enjoy it!
 
It’s too early (surely) into 2018 for troll hunting - but the OP seems to be in for the contenders already!
 
YNWOAN said:
It’s too early (surely) into 2018 for troll hunting - but the OP seems to be in for the contenders already!
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So someone seeking to learn more from others and educate themselves is a troll!? The post wasn’t intended as a Naim bashing one, just seeking opinions from you guys. Anyway, Happy New Year to you!
 
Been thinking of upgrading from my trusty Quad 909, so have started looking at Naim amps. I must say I find some of their recommendations and ethos a bit suspect, such as:

1) Needing to use their own speaker cables for impedance matching: Surely the amplifiers are designed to handle complex impedances of many different speakers, so why is the low impedance cable so key!? Am I missing something here?

For many years, the Naim mindset has been to eliminate what the late founder of the company once described to me as an ‘unnecessary component’ in the loudspeaker line i.e. the Zobel network. In removing these valuable components, he then unwittingly locked all Naim owners into a restricted choice of loudspeaker cables in order to maintain the stability of the amplifiers. Julian Vereker never learned the truth that an interface, when used correctly, can reap dividends..,,,



2) Spending thousands on a power amp and then having upgrade PSU’s which look just like very simple regulated supplies. Surely an amp costing a few thousand should already come with a decent PSU, if it really has a big impact on sound quality? The NAPSC I looked at contained a very basic ‘hobby electronics’ PSU using LM317 regs. Simple stuff and very inexpensive, so no idea whay this can’t be included in say a NAC202 to start with.

A large part of the appeal of Naim kit when purchased second hand is the hobby element and it’s this aspect that I’ll address here; For the dabbler, the kit hitherto has been traditionally constructed from easily obtained components and although no technical info has been forthcoming from the factory, circuits have been easily reverse engineered and mapped by many an enthusiast. As such, the circuits may be altered in a myriad of ways and bits added to improve (and sometimes degraded) to taste. As an example, the power amp, first published in a manual of circuits by RCA, has been done to death by Naim and if my informant is correct, even finds its way into the £150K+ Statement amp now heralded as the finest thing since bread began to be sliced. As to the power supplies you mentioned, Naim have held the view for many years that the humble LM317 is perfectly adequate that is, until aftermarket power supplies began to eat into their territory (my own included I submit) and the so called DR regulator came into being.


3) This doesn’t apply to just Naim I guess, but for digital sources, no amount of preamp can be better than not having a preamp at all! I’ve been running the Quad directly from a Dac and it sounds fantastic. Is a Naim preamp really needed to get the best from their power amps?

Quad amplifier specs fly in the face of accepted industry practice and in one aspect in particular, have a higher than usual input sensitivity than most other makes, This characteristic makes them more suitable to being supplied by low current power sources and this is exactly your finding when running your 909.


I hope the answers are some help.
 
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