indulgence show 2017 29th sept 1st oct
- Thread starter hifinutt
- Start date
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
The Kii's just play what is on the record, they have an extremely flat frequency response.
Mastering engineers use them as their cardioid response approaches the sound of a fully treated studio, soffit mounting , acoustic treatment etc in an ordinary domestic or untreated room.
Keith
sunbeamgls
pfm Member
I thought this thread was about what people saw / heard at Indulgence, not what the brochure says.
Ptah
pfm Member
We got the cellist in Bristol in February - nice CDs as well.
Agreed. I also thought the Amphion's sounded much better in the same room.
Coda II
getting there slowly
Thirded.
I took my son (12) along to this. He was keen to go when I told him there was a whole floor of headphones, and though he did listen to a lot by the end of the day it was the speaker systems that he kept wanting to revisit.
We had been in the Kii room fairly early when the Amphions were playing (which I rather liked) but he was keen to go back. Turns out it was the AEquo speakers he wanted to hear and the guys in the room were happy to oblige. The Kii came after that. In short, and given we have very different hearing sensitivities/tastes, I liked the Amphions he really liked the AEquo (never seen/heard them before, built in active sub) neither of us liked the Kiis.
Other things I was happy to have heard:
MFA/Long Dog/Graham - not long moved on from an MFA pre and only recently realised that Graham are made not very far from me at all, could have sat and listened for a good while but was managing 12 year old attention spans.
Big PMCs - we both had fun here on a number of visits. Excellent vinyl front end through what amounts to an active PA system and sounding effortless and relaxed.
Stax ear speakers - on the Viva Audio stand, I don't use headphones but if I did I suspect this is what I would go for.
CAD/Trilogy - can't remember what the speakers were (German I think) but liked the sound.
Lastly, and bonkers in a very different way to the PMC room, Metaxas & Sins. Spent a good while in here, both sets of speakers, digital and reel to reel sources - could have spent longer.
In all a good show, better for me than Bristol, better layout - nice variety of spaces and presentations and enough to keep a twelve year old occupied all day. On that I should mention the Sony presentations, two top of the range TVs, OLED and LCD which were impressive but not things I would want to own, and a tiny Ultra Short Throw Projector which I definitely would. Good fun room with just a few of those and some lamp/speaker things which were fun as well.
I did go around differently than I would have done on my own, and having a child with you does give a different perspective on things. I think it is a credit to the organisers and exhibitors that we both had such a good day
A hidden gem at the show, and for me about the best sound, was in the headphone section. I forget the Sony designations, but it was a top of the range Walkman, with their £2000 headphones and a headphone amp for £1600. This was the only headphone demonstrator I could find which had DSD files. The sound was superb, for over £5000, it should be.
myrman
pfm Member
Do you know what model the Amphions were?
Coda II
getting there slowly
According to their timetable: Krypton3
littleaudioco
Trade: the little audio company
Yes, they were Krypton 3.
Eat Yr Greens
Member
I must admit to being flabbergasted by people's -ve responses to the Kii Threes. Shows how much I know about people's different tastes, I suppose...
But from my own POV (and I know many will disagree) the quality of a system isn't about taste. I want something that will be even-handed, consistent and as neutral as possible - to hear the recordings and not anything from the system itself.
On Sunday morning it was really quiet at the show, and the good people from Ultimate Stream were kind enough to indulge me by playing the following tracks:
* (their choice) live recording of Louis Armstrong and band - 'Mack the Knife'
* Stravinsky - 'Dance of the Earth' from 'The Rite of Spring'
* Emmylou Harris - 'The Pearl' from 'Red Dirt Girl'
* Steely Dan - 'Peg' from 'Aja'
* Daft Punk - 'Lose Yourself to Dance' from 'Random Access Memories'
* John McLaughlin - 'Arjen's Bag' from 'Extrapolation'
* (their choice) Henry Mancini - Inspector Clouseau theme (not sure from which film)
* The Roches - 'Hammond Song' from their eponymous album
I know that many people have already brought DSP to bear on loudspeakers (Linn e.g. have done a lot of work), but it _seems_ to me, after this session, that Kii have brought the technology together in a package that is truly something new and a step-change forward in reproduction.
They may not be the absolute best for all recordings and in any one specific area of reproduction (it would be interesting for example to hear them against a purist valve / single driver setup playing a pristine mic-to-recorder of small-scale acoustic music), but if I had the money they would absolutely be the front runner in my auditioning shortlist - the one for others to beat.
With each of the tracks above, the character of the recording itself shone through, with nothing that I could identify as a sonic characteristic of the Threes themselves. I could bang on about what they did well, but that would just get boring - a list of what audio equipment is supposed to do.
Of course, I'm as susceptible as anyone else to the surprises that we experience when encountering something radically new and different, and future exposure to Kii speakers (or, say, Genelec monitors with radical DSP, which I've not heard yet) may temper my initial (and exuberant) enthusiasm. However, for now I genuinely think that high-end manufacturers may have a real problem here. Why fill your lounge with loads of kit that gets in the way, and pay a multiple of the price of the Kii Threes, when you can just have digital source + speakers that will play _anything_ well?
One last thing. After playing all those tracks for me, the Ultimate Stream people (thank you very much, Raff (?) and Steve) moved on to demo this system:
Merging Technologies NADAC player
T+A PA3100 HV amplifier
Amphion Krypton 3 loudspeakers
- but started with the last of 'my' tracks, the Hammond Song, so I got to hear it immediately after playback through the Kii system. The difference was shocking; the sound was more vague, more coloured and with obvious 'overhang', in comparison.
Let me put this in perspective - this is a system that I would be proud to own myself, and that initial impression faded in a minute or so (as I got used to listening 'through' it, to the recording). The following track Dusty Springfield singing 'The Look of Love' sounded exquisite.
All I need now is a week with a few friends to run back-to-back comparisons between the Kii speakers and PMC and Genelec monitors, B&W and Kef flagships, Wilson Audio and Magico, Quad and Martin-Logan ... etc (you choose the amps!)
P.S. What a thrill to hear tracks from the 50th anniversary "Sgt Pepper's" and a great talk from the mastering engineer, Miles Showell.
But from my own POV (and I know many will disagree) the quality of a system isn't about taste. I want something that will be even-handed, consistent and as neutral as possible - to hear the recordings and not anything from the system itself.
On Sunday morning it was really quiet at the show, and the good people from Ultimate Stream were kind enough to indulge me by playing the following tracks:
* (their choice) live recording of Louis Armstrong and band - 'Mack the Knife'
* Stravinsky - 'Dance of the Earth' from 'The Rite of Spring'
* Emmylou Harris - 'The Pearl' from 'Red Dirt Girl'
* Steely Dan - 'Peg' from 'Aja'
* Daft Punk - 'Lose Yourself to Dance' from 'Random Access Memories'
* John McLaughlin - 'Arjen's Bag' from 'Extrapolation'
* (their choice) Henry Mancini - Inspector Clouseau theme (not sure from which film)
* The Roches - 'Hammond Song' from their eponymous album
I know that many people have already brought DSP to bear on loudspeakers (Linn e.g. have done a lot of work), but it _seems_ to me, after this session, that Kii have brought the technology together in a package that is truly something new and a step-change forward in reproduction.
They may not be the absolute best for all recordings and in any one specific area of reproduction (it would be interesting for example to hear them against a purist valve / single driver setup playing a pristine mic-to-recorder of small-scale acoustic music), but if I had the money they would absolutely be the front runner in my auditioning shortlist - the one for others to beat.
With each of the tracks above, the character of the recording itself shone through, with nothing that I could identify as a sonic characteristic of the Threes themselves. I could bang on about what they did well, but that would just get boring - a list of what audio equipment is supposed to do.
Of course, I'm as susceptible as anyone else to the surprises that we experience when encountering something radically new and different, and future exposure to Kii speakers (or, say, Genelec monitors with radical DSP, which I've not heard yet) may temper my initial (and exuberant) enthusiasm. However, for now I genuinely think that high-end manufacturers may have a real problem here. Why fill your lounge with loads of kit that gets in the way, and pay a multiple of the price of the Kii Threes, when you can just have digital source + speakers that will play _anything_ well?
One last thing. After playing all those tracks for me, the Ultimate Stream people (thank you very much, Raff (?) and Steve) moved on to demo this system:
Merging Technologies NADAC player
T+A PA3100 HV amplifier
Amphion Krypton 3 loudspeakers
- but started with the last of 'my' tracks, the Hammond Song, so I got to hear it immediately after playback through the Kii system. The difference was shocking; the sound was more vague, more coloured and with obvious 'overhang', in comparison.
Let me put this in perspective - this is a system that I would be proud to own myself, and that initial impression faded in a minute or so (as I got used to listening 'through' it, to the recording). The following track Dusty Springfield singing 'The Look of Love' sounded exquisite.
All I need now is a week with a few friends to run back-to-back comparisons between the Kii speakers and PMC and Genelec monitors, B&W and Kef flagships, Wilson Audio and Magico, Quad and Martin-Logan ... etc (you choose the amps!)
P.S. What a thrill to hear tracks from the 50th anniversary "Sgt Pepper's" and a great talk from the mastering engineer, Miles Showell.
littleaudioco
Trade: the little audio company
With shows, most people spend a few minutes in a room and move on, with only a few coming back to sample more, so you may as well stick to a very small selection of material that shows off what you're trying to show off, rather than trying to put together a varied playlist that will last you all day. Visitors can always request something different!When I asked, the only comment was that they'd been "set up for the room" when they were installed.
And Tony, if you'd wanted Kraftwerk then the KEF Atmos demo would have been for you. Kraftwerk, Kraftwerk and more bl00dy Kraftwerk*. Later on, I did catch the sequence from Mission Impossible where Mr Cruise is hanging from the A400, but then it was back to......yup, Kraftwerk!
* don't get me wrong, I quite like Kraftwerk (but really more of a TD sort of person), but I thought they could have tried something else as well.
littleaudioco
Trade: the little audio company
PMC were swapping between the Cor and AVM. I think they were keeping it in the case to make sure it stayed in mint condition, what with all the photographers and videos going on! Sounded great though, which was with a pair of Fact 8s (I think)
Still
he said his naim was ralph
desperate marketing imo
Purité Audio
Trade: Purite Audio
This post perfectly matches my experience with the Kii's comparing them to many traditional systems.
I can't help but think that if everyone had been listening to speakers such as the Kii's/Dutch&Dutch for the last forty years a conventional loudspeaker would appear exactly as described above, vague, indistinct and coloured .
Keith
Julf
Facts are our friends
Didn't take long for it to turn into a Keith-bashing thread...
badger748
Former bacon enthusiast
Only because Keith takes over the thread in the first place !!!!!!!!!
Still
he said his naim was ralph
It's a desperate business.