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High Mass vs. Suspended decks

Yeah, obviously it's a myth - that's why Garrard went to a great deal of trouble to minimise it and why many plinths have been designed with the specific intention of reducing it further.

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A friend of mine used a Garrard for a number of years (mounted in a twin layer slate plinth) - during that time, he never believed rumble to be an issue. Recently he has moved to a different design (though still idler in design) - he now chuckles over the quantity of rumble in his Garrard (which he still owns) that the new, quieter, design has highlighted.
 
you just just said it !!!

rumble reducing plinths and garrard made lots of effort to minimise it.....

but you still want to spread the myth that they rumble....

evidence would be better rather than dissing other decks....

still that's your style i guess....
 
Whatever..........I'm not sure why I ever removed you from my 'ignore' list daryl (now resolved - 'genuine nice guy', one of the more obviously ironic of signatures).
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If rumble were not present there would be no need to address it with different plinth designs. Other drive systems are inherently quieter, but that does not mean that those methods of driving the platter are without issues/compromises of their own. For some (many). the strengths of the Garrard system outweigh the negatives - such is the nature of personal choice. If you are one of those people who feel that the Garrard is the finest turntable there is, then fine, be happy; however, I am entitled to believe otherwise (although I didn't say it was a bad deck - I actually think it is rather a good one).
 
Mike Reed said:
Are there any idler drive t/ts made today?
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Yes, though I don't think any are quite as, ahem, affordable, as an Orbe ;-)

Patrick Dixon said:
As someone said a couple of pages ago (Robert, IIRC), it's all about managing the compromises inherent in each approach, and whatever your prejudices, in practice rumble isn't an issue with the idler Garrards.
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In practice the rumble from a well installed and serviced Garrard, 124, Lenco or EMT is a complete non-issue IMO. It may be more on paper than a Spacedeck, SP10 or whatever, but it's still well below anything that can be heard in normal usage.

YNWOAN said:
I agree Tony.............except that I don't rate slate as a plinth/arm termination material (I realise some think it is God's gift in this regard).
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What don't you like about it? Seems pretty rigid and inert to me, at least when fairly thick (I'm using 40mm). I've not compared it to much though, so don't really have an opinion here.

Tony.
 
YNWOAN said:
A friend of mine used a Garrard for a number of years (mounted in a twin layer slate plinth) - during that time, he never believed rumble to be an issue. Recently he has moved to a different design (though still idler in design) - he now chuckles over the quantity of rumble in his Garrard (which he still owns) that the new, quieter, design has highlighted.
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Perhaps it wasn't rumble, but just that he prefers his new deck to the old? Rumble should be pretty easy to measure, Garrard measurements have it pretty low, and if rumble IS the difference between his decks, then it would be easy enough for you to give us some measurements rather than just some anonymous heresay.
 
Patrick, as you say, I think there are other aspects than rumble that causes my friend to prefer his new deck - indeed, I think the rumble is a side issue. I've heard Garrard's and certainly rumble is not obviously present and does not stop them from sounding good. However, in an ideal world, no extraneous noise, of any sort, would be present in the system.

Tony L said:
What don't you like about it? Seems pretty rigid and inert to me, at least when fairly thick (I'm using 40mm). I've not compared it to much though, so don't really have an opinion here.

Tony.
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I think it is probably fine for a plinth but I would prefer a lower mass termination for the platter/arm (does look nice though).
 
Has anyone listened to a 301 ( or 401 ) on a Martin Bastin and compared it with the other options available including slate?

My guess is that he has been doing it long enough to get it right?
 
I've seen one (Martin Bastin plinth that is) and they do look like an interesting construction - never heard one though.
 
YNWOAN said:
I think it is probably fine for a plinth but I would prefer a lower mass termination for the platter/arm (does look nice though).
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Does my cast alloy SME P1 Spacer count?

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I've gone for a very 'Nottingham Analogue' way of assembling everything, nothing is overly tight, just nipped up. I find this sounds the best.

Tony.
 
YNWOAN, your happy to listen to it when I get it. I hope your own designed turntable is proceeding through development.
 
Rumble in these idler designs is more about the condition and state of the turntable not the plinth material normally used to try to absorb it. If a 301/401 is running in perfect condition there will be no rumble. You address the problem at source, not by adding things that will reduce/absorb it, like adding a high mass plinth.

I have owned a number of Garrards over the last 37 years (still own one of each today although I don't use them) and provided they have been properly serviced and all the critical parts replaced/adjusted that cause rumble, they won't generate rumble. Only a faulty or badly worn/adjusted Garrard will generate rumble. One of the biggest problems with the Garrard is the rubber on the idler wheel hardening with age.

Finally when the Garrard is in 100% perfect working order then mounting in a nice solid wood or slate plinth will only enhance this great turntable design.
 
Tony L said:
Does my cast alloy SME P1 Spacer count?
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Nope (but, have you tried spacers made from a range of materials?);)

Tony L said:
I've gone for a very 'Nottingham Analogue' way of assembling everything, nothing is overly tight, just nipped up. I find this sounds the best.

Tony.
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In my opinion/experience that is because of the materials used (and presentation preferred). However, I do not consider it ideal (obviously, others are free to hold a contrary view).

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BlueEyes said:
YNWOAN, your happy to listen to it when I get it. I hope your own designed turntable is proceeding through development.
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Many thanks :). I'm afraid my own turntable interests have very much taken a back seat to the development of other components (RubiKon) - the air-bearings that myself and some friends recently acquired are very interesting though.

There is a company that seems to go to most of the shows that sells a number of Garrard plinths (pretty sure the Martin Bastin is one of them).
 
Wow, a lot of defensiveness over people's own deck choices in this thread. So let's try to be a little more objective gents, none of them are perfect.
 
except of course ynwoan's own diy deck which is perfect tm
that's why he can openly criticise everybody else's gear all the time.:p
 
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