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High Mass vs. Suspended decks

J

jackal2513

pfm Member
Excuse my ignorance of all things Hifi but do these two camps have a distinct 'house sound' characteristics ?

Do High mass tables tend to exude a rock solid unflappable sound and strong bass ? Do suspended decks tend to give a leaner, prat focused sound with a bright midrange and treble ?
 
My heavy suspended TT is far from lean.
Where did you get your rather detailed camps from?
There is a guy with a user name like yours has asked loads of questions about turntables, even ran some poles perhaps he can help. He must have tried a few TT.
 
Very interesting question - I can only speak from limited experience, and from what my ears told me.

I went from an LP12 to a Gyro to a NAS Spacedeck, each time the sound of the system changed fairly radically.

The LP12 was a pre-Cirkus (this was back in 1991 after all) one; moving to the Gyro the sound lost a fair amount of heft but gained in detail and spaciousness. I preferred the Gyro - at a push - but it was quite close. The much bigger change came with the Spacedeck. This had a very relaxed presentation, but was quite uncanny in that there was no loss of momentum, musically. That's to say, the vehicle was always making progress, moving forward compared to the more 'let's pull over and stop...take a look at the pretty scenery' presentation of the Gyro.

The Spacedeck seemed to take a lot of what the Michell brought to the party - a big, expansive sound - but (apologies for the dreadful cliche) it really was the iron fist in velvet glove. Probably the first turntable I've owned in 30 years where I truly forgot about the hardware and got really immersed into the music.

Out of the 3 turntables, if you were to ask me which one I'd like to have back, I'd take the NAS followed by the LP12.

As to their house sound?

LP12 - forward, ballsy, plenty of drive, coloured.
Gyro - spacious, fleet-of-foot, detailed, slightly mechanical.
NAS - spacious, big, fast bass, creamy*, relaxed but dynamic, slightly dark.

Sorry I've not really given a particularly good answer to the original question but these are the 3 turntables I had to go on. :)

*The NAS is a really 'full fat' sounding turntable. Lots of (good) colour. I loved it, and would have another one if I could afford it.
 
Hmmm. Interesting thought, but I rather doubt there is a consistent correlation.

Between belt drive and direct drive, maybe there's a perceived 'prat' factor difference.

However, where there is more mass, either in the platter or overall, you're usually looking at more expensive, and, ergo, allegedly better turntables.

Two fairly well-known top t/tables of very high mass but using different suspension designs are the Raven (A C etc) and the SME 30. Guess they'd sound different with identical arms and cart's but are hardly likely to epitomise their genre.
 
Does the mass of a Martin Bastin plinth which is solid and layered to, I am lead to believe, in effect create a solid block of mass below the Garrard 301 have any significant effect?

I don't understand rumble but I am lead to believe such a plinth ameliorates the same?
 
GROMIT, is the NAS non-suspended? If so, contrary to my suggestion, maybe there IS a correlation, as your use of 'dark' to differentiate the other two suspended models.

Can't remember my Xerxes (non-suspended) being particularly dark, but that was a fair while ago. There no way I'd call my Orbe 'dark', though; not surprising if the Gyro isn't, of course.
 
Is Gromit the nice chap with the beard and the 401 who was at the Waltham Abbey bake-off?

If so, I remember he argued against high mass and his plinth was hollow and was made out of the Russ Andrews seismic wood thingy?!

Forgive my technical jargon.
 
There is no competition between these camps IMO.
High mass, low mass, suspended and non suspended, idler, DD, belt - good and bad examples of all.

Comes down to good engineering in the end and a designer who understands how to balance the various compromises.
 
Mike Reed said:
GROMIT, is the NAS non-suspended? If so, contrary to my suggestion, maybe there IS a correlation, as your use of 'dark' to differentiate the other two suspended models.

Can't remember my Xerxes (non-suspended) being particularly dark, but that was a fair while ago. There no way I'd call my Orbe 'dark', though; not surprising if the Gyro isn't, of course.
Click to expand...

Hi Mike - the NAS is indeed non-suspended but IME still quite sensitive to what it's sat upon.

Blue Eyes - the nice chap (and he definitely is one) you saw at Waltham was most likely Jim Kempton with the 'lightweight' 401. His Garrard goes against the 'official' grain somewhat, but ye gods it sounded stunning the last time I heard it. Up against a PL71, an LP12/Ekos and a very trick SP10/SME 312R/Io I preferred the Garrard.

I wasn't at the Waltham bake-off but I do try to be a nice chap. :)
 
Gromit, I'd rather not comment at the risk of being considered an EMT groupie but the outcome was accepted as being close but fairly conclusive.
 
Gromit said:
Stop being so bloody sensible (and correct) Rob. ;)
Click to expand...

LOl,

Well....... among many I've owned two LP12s and loved them, a Gyro and adored it, a lovely Micro DDX1000 that dismissed the notion that DDs don't work, a low mass Rega P9 that sounds just like the cartridge bolted onto it etc etc.
Also heard Garrards and EMTs sounding excellent.

Plenty of duffers too mind!
 
Gromit said:
Very interesting question - I can only speak from limited experience, and from what my ears told me.

I went from an LP12 to a Gyro to a NAS Spacedeck, each time the sound of the system changed fairly radically.

The LP12 was a pre-Cirkus (this was back in 1991 after all) one; moving to the Gyro the sound lost a fair amount of heft but gained in detail and spaciousness. I preferred the Gyro - at a push - but it was quite close. The much bigger change came with the Spacedeck. This had a very relaxed presentation, but was quite uncanny in that there was no loss of momentum, musically. That's to say, the vehicle was always making progress, moving forward compared to the more 'let's pull over and stop...take a look at the pretty scenery' presentation of the Gyro.

The Spacedeck seemed to take a lot of what the Michell brought to the party - a big, expansive sound - but (apologies for the dreadful cliche) it really was the iron fist in velvet glove. Probably the first turntable I've owned in 30 years where I truly forgot about the hardware and got really immersed into the music.

Out of the 3 turntables, if you were to ask me which one I'd like to have back, I'd take the NAS followed by the LP12.

As to their house sound?

LP12 - forward, ballsy, plenty of drive, coloured.
Gyro - spacious, fleet-of-foot, detailed, slightly mechanical.
NAS - spacious, big, fast bass, creamy*, relaxed but dynamic, slightly dark.

Sorry I've not really given a particularly good answer to the original question but these are the 3 turntables I had to go on. :)

*The NAS is a really 'full fat' sounding turntable. Lots of (good) colour. I loved it, and would have another one if I could afford it.
Click to expand...

great and interesting post

thanks :)
 
It is easy to make generalisations regarding decks, particularly as we are all prone to include some visual judgement bias in our assessment of the sound. There's many a good, and bad, deck from all camps, idler, DD, high mass, suspended belt drive.

Finding a sound that you like is the important bit.
 
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