advertisement


Glenn Croft is building amplifiers again! CroftAcoustics.co.uk

Robert said:
Exactly, dual pots are the Croft USP - the one sonic effect that really doesn't exist but claiming it does gets everyone talking and adds 'interesting' paragraphs to magazine reviews. File it with plastic amplifier cases, solid core wire and Beltism.

We really don't need hair-shirtism for the sake of it in 2008.

Other than that, very nice amps.
Click to expand...

Hi Robert,

Dual mono is really not a focus for us. Hopefully the USP will be sonic performance comparable to competitors equipment at three for four times the price of the Croft amps.

I have heard them and they really are special at their price points.

best, Matt.
 
Dual volume controls - I put it down as quirky - I'm sure there are enough quirky people left to consume Glenn's production capacity. But I won't be one.
 
Another manufacturer who uses dual volume knobs:

Vacuum State RTP3D

In my opinion (and I speak as a long-time Croft owner too) is that Vacuum State do the dual volume control thing properly - you need to use switched attenuators to be able to set the channel balance properly and repeatably, and to avoid the problem of wonky matching at low volumes.

Mind you, my wife hates the dual controls...

Alex
 
I feel, (and this is my last post on this subject) that the postings above give much cause for concern in that over half have come out against the twin controls. Whatever the technical merits of this configuration, it would seem that by maintaining this mindset in the face of critique, Glenn will effectively reduce his potential market by at least 50%.

I rest my case M'Lud.
 
The only possible difficulty could be getting the required pot value in a twin. My Croft pre version (ex Alex M [thank you again]) has 500K pots inside (not the 1Meg as suggested) and they're not easy to obtain as it is I understand, although the low volume tracking on this sample is better than on the original sample I had many years ago.

I still think a proper stereo stepped attenuator may be the way to go, but let's allow the poor man to get his designs into production first and some money coming in, which I'm sure he and his few dealers could do with right now. The margins concerned are quite fair at these prices and hopefully Glenn and his dealers can make an ample living without the need for massive price increases later on.
 
May I repeat, as a Croft dealer of many years standing, that the double volume pot isn't a problem in reality. I don't recall anyone, ever turning down a Croft pre because it had two knobs to twiddle rather than one. A couple of minutes familiarisation is all it takes and then it doesn't trouble you anymore.

Glenn is no dope and if he considers the double pot sounds best in these very reasonably priced products I for one won't shy from buying them in.
 
hifi_dave said:
May I repeat, as a Croft dealer of many years standing, that the double volume pot isn't a problem in reality. I don't recall anyone, ever turning down a Croft pre because it had two knobs to twiddle rather than one. A couple of minutes familiarisation is all it takes and then it doesn't trouble you anymore.

Glenn is no dope and if he considers the double pot sounds best in these very reasonably priced products I for one won't shy from buying them in.
Click to expand...

Thanks Dave,

To me it really does seem odd that some would really consider buying inferior equipment based on convenience. For me it has always been about sound first and everything else second. I have experienced lots of so called hifi in pretty boxes but none of it would make it into my home unless it performed.

I really hope that you guys who are really down on dual mono have actually auditioned Croft equipment at some point in your recent audio past. If not you are in real danger on misssing out! I mean BIG TIME!

Regards, Matt.
 
I have never heard the amps, but I am sure they have little missing in terms of sound. However, how much of this is down to dual mono pots is probably well below hearing if implemented right.

I would never get one on the two-knob-basis, I am certain that would tip my girlfriend over the limit in terms of hifi nerdery she could accept for daily use, and I reckon it would make it difficult to sell on when upgrade bug bites...

/Magnus
 
matodono1 said:
To me it really does seem odd that some would really consider buying inferior equipment based on convenience.
Click to expand...

There's really nothing odd about it at all. I wouldn't buy one with dual monos and many here have said they wouldn't. I wouldn't because I know it would mean my missus wouldn't use it and for me, its important that both of us get best use.

Besides we are told having dual monos is superior, why and how would we know its so. Even if it were just me I'd be sceptical that the difference between a dual mono setup and a single volume control is worth the inconvenience. I'm sure Glenn's amps sound great - surely it isn't just down to two knobs rather than one? - surely a bit of engineering smarts could do it with one? - why does it need to be a compromise?

I'm not saying this sarcastically, I mean it well. It's useful to be able to put yourself in someone elses shoes. What I would want and what my customers would want aren't the same thing.
 
matodono1 said:
I really hope that you guys who are really down on dual mono have actually auditioned Croft equipment at some point in your recent audio past. If not you are in real danger on misssing out! I mean BIG TIME!
Click to expand...

This thread is becoming more and more a sales pitch.

Of course people value convenience, and will make their own tradeoffs with respect to convenience vs performance. If you want to tell prospective customers that they are wrong headed, and they will miss out I'd suggest that's not a very persuasive sales pitch, especially when many of them are reasonably technically astute and justifiably dubious of the claim that it's impossible to make a high performance preamp at a sensible price point with a single volume control.
 
Uncle Ants said:
I wouldn't because I know it would mean my missus wouldn't use it and for me, its important that both of us get best use.
Click to expand...

This is a very good point; no matter how many of us might be prepared to soldier on with 2 volume pots (and soldiering it is, for it's certainly not a convenience) our families, who already tolerate our hobby, must also be able to use the hifi. I know that my wife's tolerance would be very stretched to have an amp with two volume controls!

These comments don't apply to single hifi nerds living on their own, or those still in their parents' basement, or those fortunate enough to have their own dedicated listening room. For the rest of us mortals, our hifis are shared beasts and must accommodate everyone in the household.

Besides, it has already been pointed out that dual mono with remote control is totally possible these days. There's no reason to foist dual non-remote volume pots on customers any more!
 
Is this type of muttering just another of the many reasons real hi-fi in most homes is as good as dead. When people buy a hi-fi, many are buying a music production system for the family to use, not something for a geeky dad to shut himself away with. Mrs woxer would, and has tolerated valve amps, would and has tolerated a widish range of speaker sizes, does actually prefer vinyl to CD or Computer audio, as she feels the actual ritual of putting a record an the deck and lowering arm is all part of it. Two volume controls on the amp say's I, would it bother you, it would be like going back to the old gear with a balance control. Not really thanks- stick with what you have, it manages it all with one switch.
 
LesW said:
I feel, (and this is my last post on this subject) that the postings above give much cause for concern in that over half have come out against the twin controls. Whatever the technical merits of this configuration, it would seem that by maintaining this mindset in the face of critique, Glenn will effectively reduce his potential market by at least 50%.

I rest my case M'Lud.
Click to expand...

Exactly!!

I don't buy into ''Glen knows best'' mentality either.
Sycophantic fawning has no place in my internet persona I'm afraid.
 
Croft is one of those small-scale brands with a quirky and opinionated owner/designer who likes to do things a certain way. Fair enough, if you ask me, audio would be even more boring than it already is if everything was designed the same way. Nobody has to buy something if they don't like the ergonomics.

-- Ian
 
It is very easy to design a dual mono amp with a twin pot, then to connect the appropriate bits of the L and R circuit boards to the pot with short (shielded, if necessary) flying leads. I suspect the sonic differences would be somewhere between miniscule and undetectable. It would be even easier to do this nowadays in the age of remote controls and electronic attenuation.
 
sideshowbob said:
Nobody has to buy something if they don't like the ergonomics.
Click to expand...

Very true, however we were asked what we thought and in the spirit of honest and well intentioned feedback many of us said what we thought :) ie. great ... some new Croft amps ... shame about the dual mono still ;)
 
hifi_dave said:
May I repeat, as a Croft dealer of many years standing, that the double volume pot isn't a problem in reality. I don't recall anyone, ever turning down a Croft pre because it had two knobs to twiddle rather than one. A couple of minutes familiarisation is all it takes and then it doesn't trouble you anymore.

Glenn is no dope and if he considers the double pot sounds best in these very reasonably priced products I for one won't shy from buying them in.
Click to expand...

Dave mate, I don't think ANYONE here would EVER regard Glenn as a dope of any description and the long term performance and, dare I say it, desirability of his old products speaks for itself, but my wife finds the whole HiFi thing a bit of a p***off and doesn't like to go anywhere near it, anymore than I suspect yours does.

I think we all take it as a given that Glenn's new gear will sound absolutely bloody wonderful for the money and the fact we're discussing just ONE item about it indicates this.

I suspect that the people who purchase the new range won't care a fig about the dual volume controls in all honesty - it didn't bother me re-acquiring mine particularly, but the old irritation did come back for a while before I realised I tend to play with the volume in only one or two settings and no longer jump up to alter it.....
 
Uncle Ants said:
Very true, however we were asked what we thought and in the spirit of honest and well intentioned feedback many of us said what we thought :) ie. great ... some new Croft amps ... shame about the dual mono still ;)
Click to expand...

Yes we did ask for feedback and do appreciate the feedback that has been given.

However, Glenn has been building amps for twenty years, he knows what he wants to build for the next few years and he knows what he wants to leave behind in the past.

Take a look at this page http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/croft/croft.html . On it you will see equipment from the EA era priced from £1000 for the Croft GCi all the way to £10,000 for the Absolut1 and the Sytegra S Integrated cost a whopping 9000 euros.

On this page you can see dual mono's, single pots and remote control single pots. Glenn is well aquainted with all the technologies available and does not need to be told how to suck eggs.

Simply put he hated producing 80% of the equipment on that page, most of it is compromised, overpriced, overspecified and overhyped. Glenn was not motivated by the money and did not enjoy compromising designs for the sake of commercialism (driven mostly by Amar's greed). He doesn't believe in spending excess money on fancy casework (E.g the cost of the Absolut1 case alone was nearly £300). Not being true to our beliefs is bad for us all.

So now Glenn has broken away from EA he wants to do it his way and is aspiring to the days of the Micro when he was happiest building amplifiers, producing large numbers of a commercially reachable product which became an icon.

Thats the ethos "reliable affordable and reachable" and we want you on board. But also pls respect Glenn's wishes to do it his way. His main reasons for dual mono are two fold.

1) Electrical advantages due to some separation of the left and right channels.
2) Ability to compensate for room interactions due to room shape, furnishing, materials or any of a myriad of other factors.

The second factor is of more significance and is the reason for no mechanical joining of the two separate pots via belt or any other means.

Regards, Matt.
 
If Glenn buggered off to the Bahamas tomorrow, you'd have no trouble getting any of his gear repaired, unlike a lot of exotica which is full of custom components.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top