General Election 2024

[ks.234]

This is a very small, weird clique of corporate lobbyists, journalists and other courtiers giving themselves jobs as MPs. Ludicrous to consider Britain a democracy.

‘So, the final big Labour selection fix will unfold over next few days, as Starmer's henchmen Morgan McSweeney & Matt Faulding, helped by series of NEC panels (sub-committees) slot in who they want as MPs into the remaining 11 safe seats (& any others that arise).’

x.com

x.com

and Ruth Smeeth??

https://twitter.com/x/status/1795024584778846270

 

[SteveG]

That only applies if we only vote for what is electable. It is not wish fulfilment to vote against lies, corruption and the decline of democracy.

I think the primary concern in this election has to be to get the Tories out. If you principles get in the way of that, then that's fine - but hopefully it won't be a problem for most people.

 

[ks.234]

I think the primary concern in this election has to be to get the Tories out. If you principles get in the way of that, then that's fine - but hopefully it won't be a problem for most people.

Yes, my principles will get in the way of voting Labour, but they are the same principles that get in the way of voting Tory

What is the point of voting to get the Tories out and replacing them with more and more of the self same causal problems which Labour has promised to enact with an “iron fist”.

A vote for Labour is a vote for more and more of the same decline we have had for decades but reinforced with iron, and now with an added dose of genocide.

 

[SteveG]

What is the point of voting to get the Tories out and replacing them with more and more of the self same causal problems?

I know you feel jilted by the Labour party but I think most right minded people think that while they won't be great they'll almost certainly be better than the Tories.

 

[Tony L]

I think the primary concern in this election has to be to get the Tories out. If you principles get in the way of that, then that's fine - but hopefully it won't be a problem for most people.

The Tories are gone. Their only possible path to success at this point even with the totally gerrymandered FPTP system behind them is obtaining footage of Starmer eating live kittens. It would need to be more than one too.

The thing to play with is his majority. The more that can be reduced by other far more progressive voices (LD, SNP, Green, PC etc) the better. If there is a non-Labour progressive in the seat that stands a chance that would be my vote for sure. That said I’m not voting Labour even in a seat that has a shit cat-impersonating homophobic Putin stooge Brexiter as an incumbent. I’m voting Green. Screw all of them.

 

[Ponty]

I was reflecting more on your attitude to African resistance and claims you had a gun to protect from “the Mau-Mau“. I assume you went to a segregated school? You have certainly retained an elitism and entitlement which is evident in all your postings here. Something I associate with a certain type of education/life-experience.

PS I have nothing whatsoever against white Rhodesians. Two of my best/longest-standing friends are from there. Two of the most intelligent, compassionate and left-leaning people one could ever hope to meet.

My father went to bed with a gun during that period, as a child. Taught how to use it too. Shoot or be shot. A different world, a different time. All gone now of course… Many of his school friends moved to SA, now moved on from there, mainly to UK, Australia and US.

 

[ks.234]

I know you feel jilted by the Labour party but I think most right minded people think that while they won't be great they'll almost certainly be better than the Tories.

They wont be better. They can’t be better. Everything Labour has hinted it would like to do, it has explicitly ruled out because of it’s self imposed “rules”.

Labour have been quite open and truthful about making the NHS worse, about making public services worse, about watering down worker protections about watering down commitments to climate change, about supporting genocide

It is not me saying Labour will be worse than the Tories, Labour themselves are saying it

If ‘right minded people’ choose to believe that Labour will do something different to what they have made very clear they will actually do, then that has more to do with blind faith than reason.

 

[SteveG]

The Tories are gone. Their only possible path to success at this point even with the totally gerrymandered FPTP system behind them is obtaining footage of Starmer eating live kittens. It would need to be more than one too.

The thing to play with is his majority. The more that can be reduced by other far more progressive voices (LD, SNP, Green, PC etc) the better. If there is a non-Labour progressive in the seat that stands a chance that would be my vote for sure. That said I’m not voting Labour even in a seat that has a shit cat-impersonating homophobic Putin stooge Brexiter as an incumbent. I’m voting Green. Screw all of them.

I'm hoping that Labour don't get an outright majority and therefore will have to listen to more moderate parties in order to govern. That does rely on those other parties having MP's though - so if you think the Green, LibDem (*shudder*) or SNP candidate can get in then that's ideal and I'd suggest voting for them instead of Labour. If not then hold your nose and vote Labour.

 

[SteveS1]

Oh dear, many years of this debate and a UK election is still a “least bad in the view of the voter” decision.

I get that Labour are nowhere near where they should be and to think they are is delusional. But to move to a position where "it doesn’t really matter who wins because they will be just as bad" is equally delusional imo.

I will vote in the way that is most likely to remove the Tory in my case because it’s a “chimp with a blue rosette” type of seat. If I lived where Labour had a chance of winning, I would vote for them but with no illusions. That has been the case since mid 70s.

 

[TheDecameron]

There is no electable alternative in England- sad but true. Wishing it wasn't true won't change it.

Not that I'll be voting for either Labour or the Tories!

The two party revolving door is over in Scotland. They so closely mirror each other now, both far to the right of the SNP, chasing the pro-Brexit, Reform demographic with policies attractive to them but repellent to the vast majority here.

 

[ks.234]

The two party revolving door is over in Scotland. They so closely mirror each other now, both far to the right of the SNP, chasing the pro-Brexit, Reform demographic with policies attractive to them but repellent to the vast majority here.

Not just Scotland

 

[Tony L]

I'm hoping that Labour don't get an outright majority and therefore will have to listen to more moderate parties in order to govern. That does rely on those other parties having MP's though - so if you think the Green, LibDem (*shudder*) or SNP candidate can get in then that's ideal and I'd suggest voting for them instead of Labour. If not then hold your nose and vote Labour.

There are a few seats I’d actually hold my nose and vote Labour just to get shot of an especially repugnant Tory. Most amusingly some really strong tactical voting could possibly get shot of Sunak from his seat. That would be the event of the night!

 

[ks.234]

Oh dear, many years of this debate and a UK election is still a “least bad in the view of the voter” decision.

I get that Labour are nowhere near where they should be and to think they are is delusional. But to move to a position where "it doesn’t really matter who wins because they will be just as bad" is equally delusional imo.

I will vote in the way that is most likely to remove the Tory in my case because it’s a “chimp with a blue rosette” type of seat. If I lived where Labour had a chance of winning, I would vote for them but with no illusions. That has been the case since mid 70s.

Agree that the least bad option is still the talking point, but the very fact that it has been going for “many years“ should point to the fact that it isn’t working.

It isn’t delusional at all to say Labour will be just as bad, it is an evidence based observation. And the evidence is coming straight out of the Labour front bench.

The delusion is to listen to people like Streeting and Reeves saying they will increase privatisation, deregulation and spending cuts and to believe that they really mean something else

The idea that Labour will be not quite as bad as the Tories is based on faith. The evidence, from Labour itself, is that they will be worse.

 

[wulbert]

Yes, my principles will get in the way of voting Labour, but they are the same principles that get in the way of voting Tory

What is the point of voting to get the Tories out and replacing them with more and more of the self same causal problems which Labour has promised to enact with an “iron fist”.

A vote for Labour is a vote for more and more of the same decline we have had for decades but reinforced with iron, and now with an added dose of genocide.

Is there a level of spoilt ballot papers, nationally, which electoral law would declare as "No Confidence" in our entire democratic process and political parties? Would be interesting to see the results of say, 70% of all GE ballot papers being spoilt. A quiet, bloodless revolution?

 

[kensalriser]

Rees-Mogg is still my number one Portillo wish. Sunak will be gone during the term of the parliament anyway, whatever he says now.

 

[Mike Reed]

A timely sop to the pensioner vote. Increase the personal allowance in line with the (now more or less cast in stone) state pension. Discussion on R4 this morning with a minister who kept repeating himself ad nauseam. His take was that pensioners relying on the state pension shouldn't be taxed, (which is pretty close at the mo'). He omitted, or hadn't thought of another important aspect; that pensioners becoming tax-payers would need to submit returns to HMRC.

This would be an unfathomable world to many and recourse to an accountant simply unpalatable. This is a clever electoral wheeze, but does have beneficial outcomes if enacted (some hope !)

 

[kensalriser]

Agree that the least bad option is still the talking point, but the very fact that it has been going for “many years“ should point to the fact that it isn’t working.

It isn’t delusional at all to say Labour will be just as bad, it is an evidence based observation. And the evidence is coming straight out of the Labour front bench.

The delusion is to listen to people like Streeting and Reeves saying they will increase privatisation, deregulation and spending cuts and to believe that they really mean something else

The idea that Labour will be not quite as bad as the Tories is based on faith. The evidence, from Labour itself, is that they will be worse.

There's no evidence at all as the election hasn't happened yet. Likewise, we don't know how Starmer's vote will compare to Corbyn's 2017 vote (although it is a certainty it will be higher than the 2019 vote).

 

[kensalriser]

Is there a level of spoilt ballot papers, nationally, which electoral law would declare as "No Confidence" in our entire democratic process and political parties? Would be interesting to see the results of say, 70% of all GE ballot papers being spoilt. A quiet, bloodless revolution?

No.

 

[wulbert]

Yes, my principles will get in the way of voting Labour, but they are the same principles that get in the way of voting Tory

What is the point of voting to get the Tories out and replacing them with more and more of the self same causal problems which Labour has promised to enact with an “iron fist”.

A vote for Labour is a vote for more and more of the same decline we have had for decades but reinforced with iron, and now with an added dose of genocide.

Aye, at least with the Tories, their frivolity and bacchanalian impulses eventually distract them from any great master plan. They genuinely don't give much of AF about anything, as long as the gravy flows down their gob.

Labour and pious lefties (like me?) are perhaps capable of much more diligent, long-term focus on restructuring society according to some "ism" or other. That's why I favour PR and government by consensus, compromise and negotiation, where everybody has a representative in power.

 

[nobeone]

In North Devon historically the MP swaps between Liberal/Lib Dem (Jeremy Thorpe(!!!)/Nick Harvey) and Con (current incombent Selaine "I love Rishi" Saxby). 2019 it was Con 56%, Lib Dem 30%, Lab 9%, Green 3%. I felt, hoped, 2024 was an opportunity to return another Lib Dem MP, Lab are "never anywhere" here, but on looking up the current predictions for tactical voting I am mildly horrified to see predictions for Con 36% with the rest split between Lib Dem 27%, Lab 20% , Green 6%. A lack of tactical voting with younger voters avoiding the Lib Dems (Nick Clegg reneging on University tuition fees killed it for them my 22 yo #1 tells me, 18 yo #2 seems to just want "Tories out") may get us yet another stint with Selaine. Hope this is not repeated all over the South West. Sure in Plymouth and Exeter I can see more red seats coming, but if the wash of South West blue stays ... ugh