Spraggons Den
pfm Member
Indeed he said he would make the moral case for socialism during his campaign for Leader of the LP as long with other commitments such as working shoulder to shoulder with the TU movement which he has reneged on.
General Election 2024
- Thread starter gavreid
- Start date
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
So why vote for a liar?
SteveG
pfm Member
Because main alternative (in England anyway) is to vote for a liar and a thief?
If I still lived in England I'd be holding my nose and voting Labour on the "anyone other than the Tories who's got a chance of getting elected" basis.
clivem2
pfm Member
There are painfully few conviction politicians nowadays so you can call the vast majority liars as they simply trot out what they are told to say…which often contradicts their previous statements.
Why vote Labour (or LD in some seats) when they are far from ideal? To keep the Tories out.
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
Because I realise my own views are more left wing than the average voter which combined with the peculiarities of FPTP means Starmer is about what I would expect of a Labour leader with a 20% poll lead and because I want the Tories out.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Why keep the Tories out when the one promise that Labour will keep is to be worse.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
See below.
SteveG
pfm Member
They'll be shite but they won't be worse.
eisenach
pfm Member
Look what happened last time we had a "conviction politician".
Since then, we've had several who should have been convicted politicians.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
How did we get into the position, in a democracy, where we feel we must vote for liars and thieves?
ISTM a certain kind of madness to identify corrupt politics, but to keep giving that corruption a mandate to keep on going.
We live under a type of corruption in which whose “greatest problem, which it is always seeking to solve, is called democracy.”
If we keep giving corruption a mandate, we will only get more and more corruption and less and less democracy.
History, as ever, offers us a warning here.
From The Owen Jones Podcast: A Masterclass On The Mess We're In w/. George Monbiot, 23 May 2024
The Owen Jones Podcast: A Masterclass On The Mess We're In w/. George Monbiot on Apple Podcasts
Show The Owen Jones Podcast, Ep A Masterclass On The Mess We're In w/. George Monbiot - 22 May 2024
podcasts.apple.com
SteveG
pfm Member
Sadly in England those now appear to be your options.
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
because the electorate are not interested or if they are they dont believe it.
The number of people (my age) mid-late 50s in who are manual workers, who will claim they will continue to vote Tory is astonishing. And those that might say they would vote for someone else, that decision to change allegiance is purely based upon personality......many are still bemoaning the loss of Boris.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
No, they are not. Voting for known liars, known corruption and known far right ideology is not our only option.
To say ‘there is no alternative’ is itself a right wing ideology
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Agreed, but if some of the posts here are anything to go by, there are many people who are interested, but who still choose to believe the lies.
Ponty
pfm Member
You think that because my father grew up in Rhodesia, I support apartheid?! Not a lot of wealth I’m afraid, lost the family home in the 90’s recession. The recent labour GE record speaks for itself. Oddly enough, there’s strong correlation between not pushing left wing policies and occupying No 10. Blame who you like, newspapers, tv etc. Bottom line, people walk into a voting booth and stick an X in a box at their own free will.
SteveG
pfm Member
There is no electable alternative in England- sad but true. Wishing it wasn't true won't change it.
Not that I'll be voting for either Labour or the Tories!
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
That only applies if we only vote for what is electable. It is not wish fulfilment to vote against lies, corruption and the decline of democracy.
Just because both ‘electable’ parties now support greater and greater social inequality at home and genocide abroad, we do not have to give them a mandate for more corruption and genocide.
Voting for more and more corruption and genocide is insanity, regardless of the excuse.
Tony L
Administrator
I was reflecting more on your attitude to African resistance and claims you had a gun to protect from “the Mau-Mau“. I assume you went to a segregated school? You have certainly retained an elitism and entitlement which is evident in all your postings here. Something I associate with a certain type of education/life-experience.
PS I have nothing whatsoever against white Rhodesians. Two of my best/longest-standing friends are from there. Two of the most intelligent, compassionate and left-leaning people one could ever hope to meet.