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Gas and Electricity Prices

Cav said:
Not paying the poll tax did not result in loss of services
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twotone copied a Wikipaedia piece for me, but I don't remember wide=spread civil disobedience; just a few demonstrations, the like of which we've had many times with damage and injuries. However, I remember the council tax on a flat in Sth. Pembs doubling but not my own house in Ramsgate. To my mind, it wasn't the principle of poll tax which was the problem, it was the really crass way it was implemented; no tapering or gradualness at all. Wam bang thank you Maggie. Memories are hazy about this time but I wasn't a happy bunny, I remember.

zeon said:
I m a Frugal type of person.. Tight ( remember Rigsby ? ) I go out but don't spend money I was born for these times ! If everybody was like me the economy would collapse though ha
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Compared to me you are frivolous. I don't go out. I was a war baby (stork shot down by a ME109 in revenge for being thwarted in the B of B just finished) and my life was rationed 'til I was a teenager. Must now look for the control key of the drawbridge. :D
 
Curtis said:
I’m kinda hoping Richard comes round a pays for a new boiler for me & insulates my solid wall 1850’s detached house
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I've already paid quite a large sum of money over 22yrs here to get my bills down (in my 1859 detached stone farmhouse) but then I don't buy/ change/ lease a new car every year or two, go on expensive holidays etc. etc. There are many households in the UK who have chosen to spend their money in particular ways and are now finding that just maybe some of that money could have been spent differently and looking for somebody else to help them out?

I knew the Poll Tax thing would come up the second somebody hinted at civil insurrection. With the normal caveats of protecting the genuinely needy is there anybody who can make a sound argument against ALL wage earners in an area paying a local tax? Doesn't matter whether you call it Council Tax, the Poll Tax, local income tax, rates etc. etc. I must be missing something as it seems perfectly fair to me. I asked this same question recently and I don't think it was answered then.

There is nothing entirely unexpected about the way things are going it was simply a matter of time.

Yes let's nationalise the energy industry. I can hardly wait to pay more taxes to bail others out, just add them to the COVID-19 tax hikes........

Regards

Richard
 
Richard Lines said:
I've already paid quite a large sum of money over 22yrs here to get my bills down (in my 1859 detached stone farmhouse) but then I don't buy/ change/ lease a new car every year or two, go on expensive holidays etc. etc. There are many households in the UK who have chosen to spend their money in particular ways and are now finding that just maybe some of that money could have been spent differently and looking for somebody else to help them out?

I knew the Poll Tax thing would come up the second somebody hinted at civil insurrection. With the normal caveats of protecting the genuinely needy is there anybody who can make a sound argument against ALL wage earners in an area paying a local tax? Doesn't matter whether you call it Council Tax, the Poll Tax, local income tax, rates etc. etc. I must be missing something as it seems perfectly fair to me. I asked this same question recently and I don't think it was answered then.

There is nothing entirely unexpected about the way things are going it was simply a matter of time.

Yes let's nationalise the energy industry. I can hardly wait to pay more taxes to bail others out, just add them to the COVID-19 tax hikes........

Regards

Richard
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So much truth in this post.
 
Curtis said:
Not really.
Many of us families have just about enough money to pay for the roof over our heads.
We are not buying new cars or going on holiday.
When will you bigots get the message?
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You’re using more energy than me. Life is a series of choices. You make yours, I make mine.
 
Mike Reed said:
To my mind, it wasn't the principle of poll tax which was the problem, it was the really crass way it was implemented;
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I recall that for some reason they had no process to establish who lived in the house.

The council just kept sending bills to people that didn't exist. As the poll tax was not popular, people didn't volunteer the correct information, which made it's introduction very messy.

At least it was in my house.
 
Olaup said:
People protested about the poll tax in order to have it changed, it was changed. If you don't protest about something you believe in you deserve all you get.

Sit back & tell yourself nothing can be changed, you may believe that, many don't.
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The poll tax protest impacted central government both financially and reputationally.

Not paying a utility bill impacts those who don't by having their power cut off. This Government will not care that people will die - people have already died because of punitive changes to benefits. Any power poverty related deaths they will blame on the utilities.
 
Remember the credit card malarkey in the 90 s ?, which ended with many in financial hardship, debt etc ? Well it never bothered me, just used to manage my finances out of my low wages,
and still saved enough to buy some lovely lamda pro stax headphones lol. Others prefer socialising more and thats fine, all good for the economy. And then there are folk, well, you could hand em
a zillion pound a wk and they would spend a zillion and one. Take my mother in law, had 3 kids and has barely done a days work in her life, just lived on benefits lol. But because she was careful
with her dosh.... NO DRINKING, NO SMOKING NO DRUGs ... she manages fine, and poverty s never crossed her path. Saved enough for a 6 wk tour of USA for her 65th birthday as well lol.
I understand everybody's circumstances are different, for example you may have a great job, made redundant and then your world comes crashing down. But I m sure there's been many who
over the years have balanced there outgoings with incomings poorly. I m not some Tory toff type myself either, just living in London on around 23 k a year ( no housing outlays tbf ) but have to pay for everything else. To finish I do respect the good heartedness of folk who reach out and want to help poorer people than themselves, its just that its more complex than some make out
 
Mike Reed said:
twotone copied a Wikipaedia piece for me, but I don't remember wide=spread civil disobedience; just a few demonstrations, the like of which we've had many times with damage and injuries. However, I remember the council tax on a flat in Sth. Pembs doubling but not my own house in Ramsgate. To my mind, it wasn't the principle of poll tax which was the problem, it was the really crass way it was implemented; no tapering or gradualness at all. Wam bang thank you Maggie. Memories are hazy about this time but I wasn't a happy bunny, I remember.



Compared to me you are frivolous. I don't go out. I was a war baby (stork shot down by a ME109 in revenge for being thwarted in the B of B just finished) and my life was rationed 'til I was a teenager. Must now look for the control key of the drawbridge. :D
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Thatcher implimented the poll tax first in Scotland Mike, we had it a year before England, she basically used us a trial and it kicked off here big time the councils threatened warrant sales and that just topped it off, thousands of people didn't pay the poll tax up here some of them were still being chased for payment years later.

A warrant sale or poinding is basically selling people's belongings to pay a debt, think it's banned here now.


https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/history/poll-tax-glasgow-biggest-battle-12956258

Abolition of the tax[edit]
Vehement national opposition to the poll tax (which was especially strong in the north of England and Scotland) was the most important factor in its abolition. An opinion poll conducted in 1990 indicated that 78% of the population opposed the tax.[20]

John Major initially in his first Prime Minister's Questions only said his government would "look at" the Community Charge and if necessary "ensure it is accepted throughout the country", though it is a common misconception that he instantly scrapped it. In 1991 he then announced in a parliamentary speech as Prime Minister that the poll tax was to be replaced by Council Tax. The council tax came into effect in 1993. Similar to the previous system of rates, the new system set tax levels on property value. Although it was not directly linked to income, the council tax took ability to pay into consideration, unlike the poll tax.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax_riots
 
As pointed out by someone on Sky earlier; what is the point of having a energy regulator and price caps if they just keep going up every couple of months?

So what is Ofgem for? What benefit does it bring? It is clear the energy companies are currently banking record profits, the end-user is getting totally reamed, and the elite Tory government will only ever side with their wealthy donors and escalate divisions and inequality.

A figure of £4k+ was speculated for typical annual prices around Jan next year. By that point most working folk will have no option but to burn Tory infrastructure to keep warm. That figure is simply incomprehensible to such a huge percentage of the UK population. It may as well be put up to a £million as the prospects of paying it is just the same. Some cause and effect incoming…
 
What do you mean by energy companies?
The producers, eg BP, Shell, etc are making enormous profits.
However several of the suppliers, of whom 27 went bust in the last two years, are a different story. E.on and EDF are operating at a loss, Octopus made a profit last yearfor the first time since being formed.
This is why I think the call to refuse to pay utility bills is not going to work. It might drive E.on or Octopus out of business but it won’t touch the producers whose prices are causing the crisis.
 
Bob McC said:
What do you mean by energy companies?
The producers, eg BP, Shell, etc are making enormous profits.
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These producers, the main petrochemical companies. Tax them, cap them, or nationalise them. The sort of price rises being speculated is effectively a matter of national security. Vast swathes of people will refuse to freeze to death just because some very rich people or multi-billion corporations tell them to. Societies just doesn’t work like that when a real tipping point emerges. A £4k energy bill will prove to be just that.
 
Tony L said:
As pointed out by someone on Sky earlier; what is the point of having a energy regulator and price caps if they just keep going up every couple of months?

So what is Ofgem for? What benefit does it bring? It is clear the energy companies are currently banking record profits, the end-user is getting totally reamed, and the elite Tory government will only ever side with their wealthy donors and escalate divisions and inequality.

A figure of £4k+ was speculated for typical annual prices around Jan next year. By that point most working folk will have no option but to burn Tory infrastructure to keep warm. That figure is simply incomprehensible to such a huge percentage of the UK population. It may as well be put up to a £million as the prospects of paying it is just the same. Some cause and effect incoming…
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You've got it all wrong Tony, they all have their hands bound by the global market, the fact their profits are up whilst simultaneously just 'passing on the costs' is all a fugazi fed to you by the woke lefty media.
 
Putin’s plan is working well. He doesn’t need to use nuclear weapons on the west with our addiction to energy consumption and consumerism. He knows we are weak and will turn on ourselves, he (along with China) can watch it unravel from afar.
 
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