1. Things you need to know about the new ‘Conversations’ PM system:

    a) DO NOT REPLY TO THE NOTIFICATION EMAIL! I get them, not the intended recipient. I get a lot of them and I do not want them! It is just a notification, log into the site and reply from there.

    b) To delete old conversations use the ‘Leave conversation’ option. This is just delete by another name.
    Dismiss Notice

Gas and Electricity Prices

Discussion in 'off topic' started by gordonscobie, Sep 14, 2021.

  1. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    Looks similar to my own quote it's not the actual usage it's the cost of the energy.

    For electricity I'm using about 9 kwh a day and for gas 25.7 kWh but that's for the summer the electricity usage will be pretty much the same in winter so 3200 kwh annually for electricity and about 17,000 kwh annually for gas.
  2. Richard Lines

    Richard Lines pfm Member

    There are a wide variety of property types and insulation levels throughout the UK and the EST are still in living in what I call "gas boiler" land. A heat pump replacement for a gas boiler will, generally, need to be on for longer hours so the EST need to "change their tune" to reflect a heat pump based world. Even a condensing boiler, properly sized and operating as intended, would need to run for longer hours than a traditional 80/ 60°C based system everything remaining unchanged.


  3. Olaup

    Olaup pfm Member

    So when they start disconnecting people all over the country do you think that once it begins people will just lay down & take all this bull. I guarantee that when this comes, and no doubt it will, we will find that us soft UK'ers will suddenly find we have some French blood in us all.
    Curtis and twotone like this.
  4. Curtis

    Curtis pfm Member

    I’m kinda hoping Richard comes round a pays for a new boiler for me & insulates my solid wall 1850’s detached house.
  5. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    The light and the heat won't go out, there's no way the energy companies are going to be able to, never mind anything else, turn off millions of people cause they can't afford to pay the bills, they simply don't have the manpower plus I'm willing to bet good money that a lot and I mean a lot of people are now stealing gas and electricity.

    Apparently the energy companies logarithms are all to pot now and they can't accurately determine who's stealing energy and who's cutting back energy use, at least one energy company is looking to employ people to go round and checking consumer's meters for tampering but it has to be a gas safe qualified engineer who does that not just a meter reader who isn't qualified to be able to determine whether the meters are beeing tampered with.

    Can you imagine the legal issues associated with obtaining court order to gain accesss to consumer's properties to check wether they're stealing energy?

    Also I've read that some gas safe engineers are positing that they should provide a service to people who are trying to steal gas so that it's done safely and no one is injured or killed by unqualified people doing it themselves and no doubt electricians are asking the same questions, obviously to do something like that could be illegal or could it?

    I've no idea how the courts would rule on that one ie assisting in perputating a crime or ensuring people's houses don't blow up.
  6. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    We're happy for that figure in the winter time ! Must do our bit, and at least the moths have packed their bags as the jumper collection changes too quickly for them.
    Minio likes this.
  7. Mystic Mac

    Mystic Mac cauliflower ears not golden ears....

    Unfortunately means tested “benefits” are more costly to administer than universal benefits.
  8. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    Big talk.
  9. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Does that parallel with Hatfield and the north then? Funny, that; can't think of a similar sign for the east or west.

    D'you get bonus points for all four ? Interesting that your energy is not disabled if you are (must think about that). Oh well, one out of four is a start, I s'pose !
  10. Mystic Mac

    Mystic Mac cauliflower ears not golden ears....

    GDP is not and never has been a good measure for the life quality of a nation’s inhabitants.

    business energy costs offset profits/tax.
    Corporation Tax in the UK is already ridiculously low, so the Government has already reduced tax revenues massively
    twotone likes this.
  11. Bob McC

    Bob McC Living the life of Riley

    They only need a magistrate’s warrant.
  12. Olaup

    Olaup pfm Member

    Let us see, for all your talk here you would lie down & freeze to death more than likely, you just do not understand what desperate people are capable of do you.
  13. Olaup

    Olaup pfm Member

    So tens of hundreds if not tens of thousands of warrants are going to be given out & be expected to be acted upon. Not in the current real world I'll tell you, you completely underestimate this scenario, trouble is ahead & unlawful as it may become energy protests will happen.
  14. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Surely, the British are not predisposed to lying down en masse, except with the aid of superglue for some nutters. They may lay down the law, but massive, organised civil disobedience over living standards? Can't see it myself. We've been here before with vehicle fuel but not to my memory with vital domestic energy. I think the procedure, already potentially started. will be to pump money into the many fewer energy companies as and when desperately needed.

    What I can't figure is how they'll accurately target those in greater need, unlike as at present. Maybe the energy companies' databases are able to distinguish these customers during the winter months? Maybe by customer application? They'll need to increase their call centre workforce to cope, I'd expect.
  15. twotone

    twotone pfm Member

    The council tax shitstorm was the last time people were on the streets that and warrant sales here in Scotland.

    Graffiti against the poll tax near Huddersfield
    The change from payment based on the worth of one's house to a fixed rate was widely criticised as being unfair, and needlessly burdensome on those less well-off. Mass protests were co-ordinated by the All Britain Anti-Poll Tax Federation, other national networks such as 3D (Don't Register, Don't Pay, Don't Collect) and by hundreds of local Anti-Poll Tax Unions (APTUs), which were not aligned to any particular political grouping. In Scotland, where the tax was implemented first, the APTUs called for mass non-payment. As the tax neared its implementation in England, protests against it began to increase. That culminated in a number of Poll tax riots. The most serious of those was on 31 March 1990 – a week before the implementation of the tax – when between 70,000 and 200,000 people[4]demonstrated against the tax. The demonstration around Trafalgar Square left 113 people injured and 340 under arrest,[5] with over 100 police officers needing treatment for injuries.[6] There were further conflicts and protests, but none on the scale of the Trafalgar Square riot.

    As the amount of the poll tax began to rise and the inefficiency of local councils in their collection of the tax became apparent, large numbers of people refused to pay. Local councils tried to respond with enforcement measures, but they were largely ineffective given the huge numbers of non-payers. According to the BBC, up to 30 per cent of former ratepayers in some areas refused to pay.[7]

    The anti-poll-tax organisations encouraged non-payers not to register, to clog up the courts by contesting local council attempts to gain liability orders, and ultimately, not to attend court hearings arising from their non-compliance.[8] In November 1990, South Yorkshire police said they were planning to refuse to arrest poll tax defaulters, even when instructed to by the courts, because it would be "physically impossible for the police because of the large number of defaulters".[9][dead link]
    Snufkin, Olaup and Mike Reed like this.
  16. Olaup

    Olaup pfm Member

    The people of Sri Lanka took things to an extreme as they were already there with energy problems, desperate people will do desperate things when the time comes.
  17. Olaup

    Olaup pfm Member

    The same happened in many areas, we are going down the same road with energy as with the poll tax.
    twotone likes this.
  18. TalYWaun

    TalYWaun pfm Member

    I think your link is premised on a massive generalisation. Most of the UK housing stock was built before the 1940’s. In the case of my house it was before 1900 and is mostly a solid stone (plus mortar) construction. It’s a little house (2 up, 2 down) with a side extension (housing the kitchen and bathroom) and the stove is built into the previously external wall between the lounge and the bathroom (situated in the extension), on the other side of the wall to the stove. I can use coal (anthracite nuts – a mix of anthracite and coke) for heating (but can also run it on my gas boiler) and I run the stove at its absolutely minimum setting without it going out. I ran the numbers a few years ago and there was almost no difference between the fuel cost and CO2 emissions. Once the wall between the two rooms is warm, it stays warm (plus, it also heats the wall in the upstairs bedroom).

    During the hot spell a few weeks ago my house stayed cool for about 3 days, but when the weather changed it took about the same to cool down again. I don’t see how you can make a meaningful comparison between a modern house (built of wood, insulation, and plasterboard) with one constructed with older methods. i.e. one with a low thermal inertia and one with a high one. It’s comparing properties where you either heat only the air or the structure of the house (which in turn heats the air).

    I don’t think there is a one size fits all solution, and in my case running my stove 24/7 at a low level was about the same for cost and CO2 emissions. For your link to be relevant, the thermal inertia of the property needs to be a factor .i.e. for one with a low thermal inertia it may be correct, but does that hold true for one with a large thermal inertia (my guess is that it isn’t)?

    Yes, perhaps my house is an outlier in the data, but it does show that continuous low level heat 24/7 can be effective, in some cases. It depends on the construction of the property, which isn’t considered in the link.
    Snufkin likes this.
  19. paulfromcamden

    paulfromcamden Baffled

    25 years of civil war tends to make people a bit militant.
    klfrs likes this.
  20. Ellenor

    Ellenor pfm Member

    All depends. If you have full weather compensation controls that’s 100% wrong. A heating system running on an old room stat cycling on and off every hour might be a different story depending on the property.

Share This Page


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice