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Election night 2019 / aftermath

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Space is the Place said:
That he needs to own this is right, but it does not matter what happens for him and his friends in the cabinet, they are completely isolated buy considerable wealth from whatever decisions they take, they will continue to live comfortable lives whatever the outcome.
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I still believe Johnson to be but a fraction as clever as he thinks he is and also that the votes from the post-industrial north/working class areas have been lent to him (or conned away by Farage) on the premise of ‘getting Brexit done’. He doesn’t own these votes, he’s conned them on a single soundbite, and that will come back on him and his party pretty sharpish as this parliament unfolds.

To my knowledge there is still absolutely no credible economic analysis that puts *any* form of Brexit ahead of where we are now, plus there is the GFA, and Johnson owns the end game of both outright. He’ll be crowing, huffing, slavering and blustering all day today, but the reality is he is in a hole of his own making that no number of Brexit Bamford’s JCBs can dig him out of. He just doesn’t get it yet.

An interesting bet will be on the date of the next election, i.e. how long before this delusion/illusion starts to collapse? I’d be very surprised if it lasts the distance. Brexit hasn’t even started yet! The buffoon has IIRC promised a trade deal by end 2020. LOL.
 
Good speech by Boris. Didnt sound like a far right extreme party. Nhs, education and environment the focus.
 
Space is the Place said:
I've got the NHS for sale in the classifieds if anyones interested? I've now had the children removed from the floors (with a giant dustpan and brush) in case that was putting anyone off purchase.
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Are you sure you still have it to sell? Think you find you got burgled last night.
 
Philim said:
Good speech by Boris. Didnt sound like a far right extreme party. Nhs, education and environment the focus.
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Keep your eye on education. Where is that money going? Most of it will go to Free Schools and schools that are already classed as outstanding.
 
Tony L said:
An interesting bet will be on the date of the next election, i.e. how long before this delusion/illusion starts to collapse? I’d be very surprised if it lasts the distance. Brexit hasn’t even started yet! The buffoon has IIRC promised a trade deal by end 2020. LOL.
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I see them being as unpopular as Thatcher in 81.
 
ks.234 said:
Corbyn was unpopular. His image didn’t fir most people’s expectations from the start. He wasn’t polished or practiced. He didn’t have a happy face that people warmed to. The attacks from the media worked because they fed a pre-existing emotional response. The most damaging attacks however, came from within the Labour Party itself. At a time of national crisis caused by Brexit, it was more important for some to jump on every and any anti Corbyn bandwagon.

Among Labour supporters who share the hatred of Corbyn, the call is for a return to the centre ground. If the centre ground is where electoral success lives, why did LD’s fail so badly? The centrist vote didn’t shift to a moderate centre ground, it de-camped to the far right. If last night proves anything, it proves that our accepted definitions of left, right and centre have changed radically.

The longer term future for the Labour Party is uncertain. The immediate future for the UK is dire. US politics and economics are about to come over here and become much more prevalent in all our lives. TTIP will be back on the table with a vengeance, little discussion and even less to restrain it’s worst excesses.

Our cultural future will undoubtedly be poorer. My ‘man in the pub’ has become more emboldened in the last few years. He feels confident to express his views of foreigners and non whites and challenging him is a lonely place. He will be celebrating loudly now. If recent comments on here about travellers is anything to go by, he will also feel freer to expand his vocabulary to others who do not fit his world view

The right wingers in the rest of the country will be celebrating loudly too. But we now have a Prime Minister with no integrity, no honesty, no empathy, no commitment to scrutiny, no manifesto and a blank cheque to do whatever he wants.
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it's a verdict on the two main opposition parties who have gone from regularly defeating Johnson in the HoC and holding him to account to granting him a five year free reign through lack of co-operation. Corbyn was totally unelectable among people who were looking for basically anyone bar Johnson. He was never meant to be leader and never, ever looked like one. People say it doesn't matter, that is patently untrue as the lessons of the past indicate. Unfortunately the post Milliband party framework is now under control of people who will look at everything through the eyes of zealots and not voters. Backers like Milne and Len McCluskey will not learn anything from this. A truely depressing prospect for anyone looking for them to raise the stakes.

This isn't a verdict on Johnson, it didn't have to be. He did nothing and got away without ever having to present anything. All he's done is his usual schtick of blustered optimism without foundation and gone to great lengths to avoid scrutiny. He was appointed and effectively campaigned for an election from the off. As if that wasn't a strong enough clue - he was then given first prize for any aspiring shyster, an election on his terms and at a time when his stock will never be higher. I still ask myself how the opposition ever thought that was a good idea. Each leader with totally hubristic notions of how they were somehow going to win out of it - only Sturgeon ever looked likely to have any success.
 
Tony L said:
I still believe Johnson to be a fraction as clever as he thinks he is and also that the votes from the post-industrial north/working class areas have been lent to him (or conned away by Farage) on the premise of ‘getting Brexit done’. He doesn’t own these votes, he’s conned them on a single soundbite, and that will come back on him and his party pretty sharpish as this parliament unfolds.

‘Getting Brexit done’ is clearly impossible in any way that preserves EU-facing jobs and services, the GFA etc, so Johnson is on a countdown clock to inevitable failure starting today. His party’s days are numbered as when the penny drops a lot of people are going to be very, very angry. To my knowledge there is still absolutely no credible economic analysis that puts *any* form of Brexit ahead of where we are now, and Johnson owns that end game outright. He’ll be crowing, huffing, slavering and blustering all day today, but the reality is he is in a hole of his own making that no number of Brexit Bamford’s JCBs can dig him out of. He just doesn’t get it yet.

An interesting bet will be on the date of the next election, i.e. how long before this delusion/illusion starts to collapse? I’d be very surprised if it lasts the distance. Brexit hasn’t even started yet! The buffoon has IIRC promised a trade deal by end 2020. LOL.
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Yes i imagine this is the scenario that will play out...but what your forgetting is Johnson et al don't care, it won't effect them in the slightest.

myles said:
I haven't got the business acumen to make either work.....perfect!
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Have you ever thought about joining the Conservatives?
 
This election should not be seen in terms of left vs right. The traditional battle grounds weren't what was important, it was all (and only) about Brexit.

Ignore the idea that mining towns suddenly like the Tories, that's not it, they want Brexit. They aren't racist, more xenophobic, as embattled people tend to stick together. Brexit means a return to the 'good old days'. It's misplaced, but understandable.

I'm still trying to find anyone I really believe will win out of Brexit.
 
Philim said:
Good speech by Boris. Didnt sound like a far right extreme party. Nhs, education and environment the focus.
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I'm curious, what cognitive techniques do you deploy to ascertain wether or in which parts of a Johnson speech, is/are truthful?

I'm reminded of the catastrophe that befell the North under Thatcher after her Francis of Assisi speech..
 
SteveS1 said:
it's a verdict on the two main opposition parties who have gone from regularly defeating Johnson in the HoC and holding him to account to granting him a five year free reign through lack of co-operation. Corbyn was totally unelectable among people who were looking for basically anyone bar Johnson. He was never meant to be leader and never, ever looked like one. People say it doesn't matter, that is patently untrue as the lessons of the past indicate. Unfortunately the post Milliband party framework is now under control of people who will look at everything through the eyes of zealots and not voters. Backers like Milne and Len McCluskey will not learn anything from this. A truely depressing prospect for anyone looking for them to raise the stakes.

This isn't a verdict on Johnson, it didn't have to be. He did nothing and got away without ever having to present anything. All he's done is his usual schtick of blustered optimism without foundation and gone to great lengths to avoid scrutiny. He was appointed and effectively campaigned for an election from the off. As if that wasn't a strong enough clue - he was then given first prize for any aspiring shyster, an election on his terms and at a time when his stock will never be higher. I still ask myself how the opposition ever thought that was a good idea. Each leader with totally hubristic notions of how they were somehow going to win out of it - only Sturgeon ever looked likely to have any success.
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There’s a lot in there that I don’t disagree with. On the bits I do disagree with, I wish to stay quiet....for now!
 
Space is the Place said:
Yes i imagine this is the scenario that will play out...but what your forgetting is Johnson et al don't care, it won't effect them in the slightest.
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Johnson isn’t important, my bet is he is dumb enough to do some real lasting damage to the Conservative Party, and that is of far more interest to me. He has promised the clearly undeliverable by the end of 2020, so we are off to a good start! If he does end up crashing us out without a deal at all then the post-industrial north is going to get very pitch-forky very fast. They will not like seeing their jobs and services go along with spiralling inflation etc.
 
ks.234 said:
Corbyn was unpopular. His image didn’t fir most people’s expectations from the start. He wasn’t polished or practiced. He didn’t have a happy face that people warmed to. The attacks from the media worked because they fed a pre-existing emotional response. The most damaging attacks however, came from within the Labour Party itself. At a time of national crisis caused by Brexit, it was more important for some to jump on every and any anti Corbyn bandwagon.

Among Labour supporters who share the hatred of Corbyn, the call is for a return to the centre ground. If the centre ground is where electoral success lives, why did LD’s fail so badly? The centrist vote didn’t shift to a moderate centre ground, it de-camped to the far right. If last night proves anything, it proves that our accepted definitions of left, right and centre have changed radically.

The longer term future for the Labour Party is uncertain. The immediate future for the UK is dire. US politics and economics are about to come over here and become much more prevalent in all our lives. TTIP will be back on the table with a vengeance, little discussion and even less to restrain it’s worst excesses.

Our cultural future will undoubtedly be poorer. My ‘man in the pub’ has become more emboldened in the last few years. He feels confident to express his views of foreigners and non whites and challenging him is a lonely place. He will be celebrating loudly now. If recent comments on here about travellers is anything to go by, he will also feel freer to expand his vocabulary to others who do not fit his world view

The right wingers in the rest of the country will be celebrating loudly too. But we now have a Prime Minister with no integrity, no honesty, no empathy, no commitment to scrutiny, no manifesto and a blank cheque to do whatever he wants.
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I am, to put it bluntly, rather cross this morning. Corbyn is the problem, always was. He has not earned the right for a period of reflection, he should go now. The Labour Party is going to go through a period of massive internal conflict & hopefully an electable outcome will result.

History is repeating itself, there is no obvious leader in the wings so a place holder will need to be in place, a latter day Kinnock type with someone new coming round the corner.

Let us not forget that Corbyn has been elected twice by LP members & been aggressively defended thereafter. I am far from happy about this also. He has been an absolute disaster yet people have continued to defend him. Centrist sympathisers like myself have been demonised, not so much on here, despite actually voting Labour repeatedly.

Let's just admit that the MPs who rebelled against Corbyn (a serial rebel himself) may have just been right about his electoral worth. It's not the media, not the Israel Govt etc it's just him & ineffectual cohort. This also illustrates how difficult things can be when you have actual power, where you make real time policy decisions rather than just make fautuous observations from a perspective of hindsight.
 
richgilb said:
This analysis does not add up for me...in summary, the talking head guest is saying that because there was a strong majority, the market is predicting a softer brexit than if it was a hung parilament or smaller majority, possibly single market. Please explain!

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/13/uk-...kely-as-boris-johnson-wins-clear-mandate.html
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The 'theory' would be the larger Johnson's majority, the less dependent he is on HoC votes from the Brexit nutters. When Johnson no longer needs support of any faction, they are gone. Ask Arleen.
 
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