TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
And now, a hard rain’s going to fall. Does it feel exciting to be part of it?
Coronavirus - the new strain XI
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You need to listen to "More or Less", frequently - the programme has all but been given over to C19 statistics for quite some while.
Richard Lines
pfm Member
The bigger picture is there are lots of examples of people not following the rules/ guidelines call them what you will. I am getting very p****d off that we are where we are.
There are people here who seem determined to hold the Government to account or that the testing system is failing. A simple incontrovertible fact is that people are not doing what they have been asked to do.
How difficult can it be? If in doubt don't. Unfortunately the Dominic Cummings incident blew that out of the water.
OK I used the wrong term regarding house moving being 'banned' but I think most people knew what I meant!!!! It is indicative of people deciding the rules, or at least some of them, don't apply to themselves.
As for the students in Scotland............
Regards
Richard
Richard Lines
pfm Member
Seriously??? Let's all not bother following common sense guidelines or, in this case, the law............ No wonder the countries in a mess with that kind of thinking.
Regards
Richard
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
These people are merely following the various examples set by our leaders. If the government says one thing, but prominent members of same do the opposite, whose fault is it if people conclude that the rule is discretionary?
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Shocking.
stephen bennett
Mr Enigma
I'v been listening to MoL since the first episode. It's perfect for a 4K run.
By 'further expose', I mean beyond quality Radio 4 programmes and the Guardian.
By 'we', I mean' The Government'.
Stephen
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
“But we're still in a "one-foot-in-one-foot-out" pattern here since the announced measures are time-limited, modest in scale, and barely any focus on retraining/replacing lost jobs“
We have a Hokey Cokey government; in, out, in, out, shake it all about, turn around we all fall down
I think you're falling into the same trap as our resident political animals, but form the other side. The government absolutely should be held to account, they have handled this astonishingly badly and that is a good part of the reason why we are where we are compared to other countries. However, that does not absolve blame of those who are flouting the regulations because they are selfish. I am not talking abut those put in an impossible position by the government's ill thought out and illogical rules, but those who think that wearing a mask in busy places is oppression, those that think having a party is OK as they're above the law, those that don't care whether their behaviour puts others at risk and there are plenty of those around. Just one person behaving stupidly can cause many cases and the more that happens the longer the rest of us are going to have to ensure stricter measures and the more livelihoods will be affected. It's as simple as that! The blame does not lie in one place despite what many on here think!
farfromthesun
pfm Member
Did you say that they moved in around March? Do you think that they began the house moving process in March, when they should have known better? Or would it have been several months prior, without any knowledge of what was around the corner? I've bought and sold a few houses - it's hardly a quick process and you're fairly well invested and committed long before you actually get the keys.
I do agree that there are a few people flouting rules, but the general demise wouldn't have occurred had the guidance been clearer, and you're spot on with regards to the Cummings incident as a turning point.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
I agree with some of that, but you don't mention the wider Government's role. The Tories also contain many non cabinet voices that are doing much to encourage the Libertatrian death cult that sees masks as oppression, won't vaccinate and are trying to make a nonsense "freedom" argument out of a health crisis. They would be quietly supportive of these students that Richard is getting in a tizzy about.
I think Richard's problem is much simpler, he prefers to hit out at what he sees.
mandryka
pfm Member
This post lockdown surge in infections is happening in many other countries, that suggests to me that its fundamental cause is not Thatcher or this government or Cummings or indeed anything specially British, it’s a more general phenomenon than that.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
This is fair enough, in its own terms. But as I said upthread, the muppets will always be with us. There are a couple of things about the muppets we should probably keep in mind, for balance. First, I think they are relatively few, and the incidents are blown up (like the 'dangerous dogs' stuff a few years back). I agree, it annoys me when I see people on public transport not wearing masks, and people in Sainsburys wearing them as chinstraps, or people wearing them over their mouths, but not their noses. But that's people. The government must be aware that people like this will be around, and that leads me to my second thing: the government needs to minimise the effect of the muppets by clear, unequivocal rules and guidance, and leading by example.
In short, we are where we are because of the decisions the government has taken (or ducked). Blaming the muppets lets the government off the hook. Let's not do that.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
The public are and have been fed mixed messages right from the off by Johnson’s government- it’s not just Cummings even though that example of hypocrisy seems to be the one that has captured the public imagination.
In March, Johnson claimed the British public wouldn’t accept restrictions while at the same time personally flouting infection control rules ( I shook hands with everyone and will continue to). His own ministers went on to contradict him on the requirement to wear masks, equating masks with muzzles and this week the Prime Minister comes out with this-
“There is an important difference between our country and many other countries around the world: our country is a freedom-loving country. If we look at the history of this country over the past 300 years, virtually every advance, from free speech to democracy, has come from this country. It is very difficult to ask the British population uniformly to obey guidelines in the way that is necessary.”
He is quite literally giving a free pass to those Richard condemns in his post above. This fish as they say, rots from the head.
In March, Johnson claimed the British public wouldn’t accept restrictions while at the same time personally flouting infection control rules ( I shook hands with everyone and will continue to). His own ministers went on to contradict him on the requirement to wear masks, equating masks with muzzles and this week the Prime Minister comes out with this-
“There is an important difference between our country and many other countries around the world: our country is a freedom-loving country. If we look at the history of this country over the past 300 years, virtually every advance, from free speech to democracy, has come from this country. It is very difficult to ask the British population uniformly to obey guidelines in the way that is necessary.”
He is quite literally giving a free pass to those Richard condemns in his post above. This fish as they say, rots from the head.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Yep, tiggers’ riposte there is disappointing. I was doing him the courtesy of giving a considered response. More fool me.
Seanm
pfm Member
I think the fundamental cause is that the virus is really difficult to contain and there are lots of ways of messing it up.
I personally am not blaming some flaw in the British character, be it intrinsic or Thatcher-induced. I’ll leave that to the patriots. But it seems uncontroversial to suggest that decades of hollowing out public institutions, running down healthcare capacity and neglecting/privatising social care presented the current administration with a really serious challenge. And, more controversially, that their Thatcherite assumptions and strategies prevented them from rising to it.
Comparisons with other countries show that there are ways of getting it right, after all, sometimes with much lower basic capacity than the UK. Obviously, it’s a very difficult situation, but there have been a lot of unforced errors here.
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