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Coronavirus - the new strain XI

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Ragaman said:
I sit aside 2 contrasting families. One side a benefit scamming convicted drug dealing drug addict & his motley crew of undesirables, the other, a hard working couple who abide by the law & work long hours & are no problems to anyone. I face a couple who work for the NHS, one being a paramedic, who sit alongside another hard working civilized family of 4. Virus? what virus? Over the last 6 months i had to check there actually was a virus spreading the globe as it seemed to have passed us by. None of them have acted accordingly with homes regularly visited by outside families & when at the height of "lockdown" all (NHS workers aside) were working full time in non essential jobs.
Letting the public off the hook won't wash if you live in the real world where many are going about their day like it's all been over for months. No mask wearing anywhere in my area. Shops are packed with people up close & personal, no masks, schools are packed with parents, teachers & pupils up close & personal. We should not have to rely on Government strategy to make sensible decisions to protect those who need protecting but many seem incapable of grasping that the fundamental measures put in place are as much about protecting others as they are about protecting ourselves . It doesn't take much to put on a mask for half an hour around Sainsbury's to prevent the spread. Over this last 6 months i have had my worse fears borne out, that we are a country amassed with self serving individuals who care little about their fellow man & refuse to sacrifice their selfish needs to help those suffering around them.
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flatpopely said:
Can take precautions, can wear mask, can avoid contact.
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Andrew C! said:
You are quite right, of course. But I’ve never said you were not right with your comments regarding the inconsistency of, and poor decision making by the government. What you do do is seem to totally abstain from any personal responsibility with your ‘government is to blame for all’ argument.

I can decide who I hug and socialise with. I can decide which mask fits. I can comply with the health and safety requirements of the schools I teach in. I can choose to look after myself by taking some personal responsibility. Fortunately due to working in the public sector, I’m ok financially. Etc.

ps consent will only go so far, and with so many. If you want to enforce something, then consider all the angles in order to do so. I’m very surprised no-one on here seized on my comments regarding exemption from wearing face masks not being accountable.
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It’s pointless us arguing about it, it’s just different ways of looking at the world. Also what you want to focus on: the countless examples of people acting selflessly and responsibly, or your neighbour being a dick. The actual proof of overwhelming levels of responsibility and compliance, namely the fact that between us, and against the odds, we reduced hospitalisations to almost nothing, or people wearing their masks as chinstraps.
 
stephen bennett said:
* Hilarious. Pretty much makes it all but useless. Other countries have simler Apps that work on older devices.
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In fairness iOS13 (and 14) will run on a iPhone 6S, and that is a five year old smartphone. I’m in a distinct minority in running a phone so old as I’m one of the few that buys outright rather than via contract. Apple are spectacularly good at getting users to install the current version of their phone OS, IIRC within a few of months of a major version release around 95% of users are running it. By comparison Android is <30%. No other computer platform on the planet gets close to this current version uptake, e.g. you’ll probably still find some people running Windows XP on their home computers!
 
farfromthesun said:
I don't recall house moving being banned, nor do I remember having visitors being banned. Richard is curtain twitching, winding himself up, and completely missing the bigger picture.

(Brian's "like" also registered).
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What is that meant to mean? I've registered that you registered it. Big deal. Can't I even click "like" on a post now without being nagged about it?

I "liked" his post because I sympathise that he is frustrated with the behaviour of some people and looks to be getting quite upset. I too am frustrated at the behaviour of some people, I see people becoming complacent and I don't like it. Unlike Richard though, I place responsibilty for people's actions on govt.

I posted a reply to Richard's comments here if it helps clarify matters before you start attributing something else to me that isn't my position.
 
Bob McC said:
Are you employed in a school?
If not how do you know schools are “packed with parents”?
The ones round here won’t let them over the threshold.
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My sister works at 2 schools as a cleaner. She has been there all through this but since the kids returned, so have the parents, all hugged together outside. They have been warned several times to distance themselves but why should they listen when the head does precisely the same everyday inside the premises. No social distancing between staff members at one of the schools, the other is run a little differently with more stringent following of guidelines but still has a long way to go before it's a safe environment to work.

She sees a wide range at activity as she works at a solicitors offices & local electrical shop with drivers entering without masks & mixing with staff all day long, this is happening in schools also with one member of staff claiming, after she called out a driver wondering around without a mask & i quote "oh he's ok, we know him" this is the kind of idiocy we are dealing with.
 
Seanm said:
Some simply can’t be arsed, because they put their own preferences over any sense of solidarity or responsibly to others. That’s on this government and the governments of the last 4 decades.
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Oh I see your going for the Thatcherism was the death of society argument. Well it probably was the end of the post war social contract and social polarisation/atomisation has increased but there were also incredible acts of selfishness in the 50s, 60s. I am old enough to remember the sugar strike and, get this, the bread strike ffs. What can be more spiteful than the deliberate withdrawal of your labour in order to deny others of a basic food stuff (this was in the days before carbs were seen as the spunk of Satan).
 
thebigfredc said:
Oh I see your going for the Thatcherism was the death of society argument. Well it probably was the end of the post war social contract and social polarisation/atomisation has increased but there were also incredible acts of selfishness in the 50s, 60s. I am old enough to remember the sugar strike and, get this, the bread strike ffs. What can be more spiteful than the deliberate withdrawal of your labour in order to deny others of a basic food stuff (this was in the days before carbs were seen as the spunk of Satan).
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There's a strong argument that the end of the social contract was fast approaching in any case.

That won't stop the woollier parts of the left summoning it whenever they feel the need to feed their sense of saintliness. Unfortunately, it doesn't win elections = or provide for an effective Opposition.
 
Ragaman said:
when at the height of "lockdown" all (NHS workers aside) were working full time in non essential jobs.
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When was that ever against any sort of rule? You were only strongly encouraged to work from home if your job allowed it, essential or not, there was never a ban on going to work in your non essential job, loads of people have worked all the way through this right from the start.
 
I've not been reading this thread at all, but two items on R4 over the past 2 days bear mention in relation to the virus and disease.

One item was the discussion on "More or Less" about the statistics associated with test accuracy. Simple and confusing at the same time.

The other was a conversation with the head of one of the testing laboratories, not sure what that was on. The conversation was around pool testing, which the lab does for private contracts and they themselves have validated, but not for NHS tests, where there is no permission to do this. Pool testing - they combine samples from 5 people and test that as one sample. Because rather few people will actually be positive, they effectively quintuple the test rate/capacity because they only back-track and test individually the five contributors to any pool test that shows a positive.
 
thebigfredc said:
Oh I see your going for the Thatcherism was the death of society argument. Well it probably was the end of the post war social contract and social polarisation/atomisation has increased but there were also incredible acts of selfishness in the 50s, 60s. I am old enough to remember the sugar strike and, get this, the bread strike ffs. What can be more spiteful than the deliberate withdrawal of your labour in order to deny others of a basic food stuff (this was in the days before carbs were seen as the spunk of Satan).
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To which of the many bread strikes do you refer?

The point of a strike is to prevent the employer making profit to encourage them to reach a settlement with the workers. There is no point in striking if no one is adversely affected.
 
thebigfredc said:
Oh I see your going for the Thatcherism was the death of society argument. Well it probably was the end of the post war social contract and social polarisation/atomisation has increased but there were also incredible acts of selfishness in the 50s, 60s. I am old enough to remember the sugar strike and, get this, the bread strike ffs. What can be more spiteful than the deliberate withdrawal of your labour in order to deny others of a basic food stuff (this was in the days before carbs were seen as the spunk of Satan).
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I don't think there was ever a sugar strike. There was a sugar shortage for a short period in the 70s caused by nothing more than rumour. I don't remember a bread strike. How would that even be possible?
 
thebigfredc said:
Oh I see your going for the Thatcherism was the death of society argument. Well it probably was the end of the post war social contract and social polarisation/atomisation has increased but there were also incredible acts of selfishness in the 50s, 60s. I am old enough to remember the sugar strike and, get this, the bread strike ffs. What can be more spiteful than the deliberate withdrawal of your labour in order to deny others of a basic food stuff (this was in the days before carbs were seen as the spunk of Satan).
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Unlike some I'm not shocked that people can act like arseholes under the right circumstances, so this is not really news to me. That you identify the withdrawal of labour as the peak of selfishness is not a huge surprise either.

Has 40 years of Thatcherism made people more likely to act like selfish arseholes? I can't prove it, wouldn't even really want to dwell on it with regard to the current scenario. But the government certainly presumed that everyone in the country would behave purely as self-interested individuals, which is the fundamental reason things got as bad as they did: they just assumed we wouldn't put up with having our lives curtailed for the sake of the old and the vulnerable, and didn't lock down when they should have. They've also spent the last 6 months telling us that we are at once horrible, selfish individuals and irrepressible freedom-lovers, and you can certainly see that (very Thatcherite) mix of resentfulness and stupid self-regard reflected in the mask-refusers and lockdown sceptics.

So, I don't know. All I can say is, if Britain hasn't become a country of selfish irresponsible arseholes it's not for want of encouragement.
 
Seanm said:
you can certainly see that (very Thatcherite) mix of resentfulness and stupid self-regard reflected in the mask-refusers and lockdown sceptics.
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But Sean its well documented that it is the 20 - 30 demographic who are much more likely to flout the Covid 19 restrictions i.e. one doesn’t usually find many over 50s at raves in gravel pits at the weekend, and you have spent the last three years telling us how great the youth are and that the vast majority of them are anti Tory voting for Labour, Liberal, Green, SNP etc

Talking of gravel pits, if I were you I would stop digging.
 
Vinny said:
I've not been reading this thread at all, but two items on R4 over the past 2 days bear mention in relation to the virus and disease.

One item was the discussion on "More or Less" about the statistics associated with test accuracy. Simple and confusing at the same time.

The other was a conversation with the head of one of the testing laboratories, not sure what that was on. The conversation was around pool testing, which the lab does for private contracts and they themselves have validated, but not for NHS tests, where there is no permission to do this. Pool testing - they combine samples from 5 people and test that as one sample. Because rather few people will actually be positive, they effectively quintuple the test rate/capacity because they only back-track and test individually the five contributors to any pool test that shows a positive.
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This is used in countries with fewer health resources than ours. It makes sense but requires joined-up thinking.

In the U.K. we can’t even seem to get existing testing onto the same database.

I assume that would expose further the lies being peddled on numbers.

Stephen
 
Tony L said:
In fairness iOS13 (and 14) will run on a iPhone 6S, and that is a five year old smartphone. I’m in a distinct minority in running a phone so old as I’m one of the few that buys outright rather than via contract. Apple are spectacularly good at getting users to install the current version of their phone OS, IIRC within a few of months of a major version release around 95% of users are running it. By comparison Android is <30%. No other computer platform on the planet gets close to this current version uptake, e.g. you’ll probably still find some people running Windows XP on their home computers!
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I really should have removed that bit.

I thought I had!

Stephen
 
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