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Coronavirus - the new strain VII

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Who in their right minds walks around a park with an IKEA coffee mug? He obviously got rapped over the knuckles by his handlers for the Costa one he used yesterday. Now he just looks like a dick.
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Tony L said:
As ever with two-party UK politics it is steeped in the ancient history of mill owners vs. mill-workers etc, in fact you could even take it back to the days of landed gentry and slaveowners. Ours is an archaic and largely obsolete politics, but in this case it still has resonance as in many areas that divide still exists. There is still a huge wealth and power imbalance even if the workplace has changed,
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Yes

Tony L said:
e.g. the right-wing bosses of JD Wetherspoons, Sports Direct or whatever still get to call the working classes back into their clearly dangerous work environments from the luxury of a very safe distance (their yacht, country estate or wherever).
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That shouldn't be allowed. That's to say there must be a legal requirement to make the workplace safe -- 1 m distance between workers; provision of hand gel; cleaning entrances, banisters etc.

If that's not followed, then I guess the worker would be in his rights to refuse to go to work; and the employer should be sanctioned.

Tony L said:
The public sector is in a similarly dangerous position, but are hopefully better represented. In what part of a teacher’s, librarian or museum worker’s employment contract is there a clause saying they are expected to work in a clearly life-threatening viral biohazard, or that they are not? As ever it boils down to power, and many people working in this country have none in any real sense. Traditionally Labour has represented the powerless against the powerful, but it has lost its way as the global workplace has altered so much.
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Yes, and as above. Except I do not believe that public sector unions have much clout -- in the case of teachers at least, the workforce seems to be very sheepish, and that reflects itself in the unions' influence.

Tony L said:
We should also not forget how lucky so many of us here are. As an example I’m very far from wealthy, technically a low-wage earner, but I have enough assets and resources to stick my middle finger up to government for as long as I need to as I still have some income coming in working from home along with zero debt, plus my savings etc. I define my work, no one else. That puts me in a powerful position as I don’t need to give a shit what Johnson, Hancock, the king of Brexitspoons or whatever say. They don’t represent me, I don’t trust what they say in the slightest, and I easily can afford to ignore them. I pity those who can’t.
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Yes.
 
Nero said:
Who in their right minds walks around a park with an IKEA coffee mug? He obviously got rapped over the knuckles by his handlers for the Costa one he used yesterday. Now he just looks like a dick.
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PM tries to prove he can walk and drink coffee at the same time.
He’s even started wearing his ties à la Trump.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
You've just explained, quite clearly, why many people's situations will be different. So I genuinely don't understand why you think that demonstrates a need for a common approach and consistent UK-wide policy.

But, secondly, if three national leaders are in agreement, and one is not, why do the three have to get in step with the odd one out?
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The figures for the north of England are still high I'm sure many will be dismayed at the government's latest rules.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
You've just explained, quite clearly, why many people's situations will be different. So I genuinely don't understand why you think that demonstrates a need for a common approach and consistent UK-wide policy.

But, secondly, if three national leaders are in agreement, and one is not, why do the three have to get in step with the odd one out?
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Having different privileges between the nations will cause chaos and confusion. To answer your second point, look at the populations and where the UK power base is.
 
Ponty said:
Having different privileges between the nations will cause chaos and confusion. To answer your second point, look at the populations and where the UK power base is.
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On the second point, does that not make the concept of devolution a transparent sham? If, come the first crisis, they are expected to get in line behind an obviously ill-thought out policy because it is Westminster than has hatched it, then you've just holed any regional self-determination below the waterline.

On the first point, while I agree, I refer you back to my second point. Why should there not be the same approach across all nations (which would be logical and sensible) but for England/Westminster to agree the consensus of all four nations, not merely to impose itself on them?
 
Ponty said:
Having different privileges between the nations will cause chaos and confusion. To answer your second point, look at the populations and where the UK power base is.
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This is a pure leadership vacuum. A good news blusterer who craves being liked is not credible when decisive clear messages which not everyone will like are required. Also, why an earth would you leave the so called leader's address until last? That's called following.
 
gavreid said:
The question is why is he. We're seeing who is in control in Cabinet and behind the scenes.
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Im certain Johnson is mortgaged to the hilt with political debt and I’m not just thinking about the £1m he’s trousered from the Barclays. He has the New Boys at his heels- the extremist 2010 intake and later and you can only guess who they are answerable to. They’ll be the ones demanding the economy is reopened.
 
Ponty said:
The preference and primary aim of the Scottish govt is independence. They don’t want unity at all. It’s not a question of the best way to navigate this (and nobody knows right now), Sturgeon will take a different path just because she can.
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Why insist that nobody knows?
Ponty said:
Of course, but there has to be a consistent policy UK wide. I live in Wales but am a million miles away from someone living in a flat in the middle of Cardiff. In the same way you are from someone living in Edinburgh. We have a different risk profile based on the environment in which we live, whether that’s in England, NI, Scotland or Wales is irrelevant. Should individual councils set the rules accordingly? Of course not. Boris was very recently elected UK PM with a thumping majority. He makes the rules, like it or not.
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Something tells me you haven’t had to cram yourself onto a crowded bus this morning to go and work in close proximity to others on a building site.

Winning an election doesn’t make the PM a dictator with the power of life and death. And yet he’s acting as one. We all have individual rights that allow us to refuse him (e.g. Section 44 of the 1996 Employment Rights Act), and those in a position of power have a duty of care that compels them to use whatever means they have to refuse him.
 
droodzilla said:
Your obvious contempt for Sturgeon might carry more weight if Boris Johnson had delivered a clearer message yesterday. In the absence of such clarity she is right to do what's best for Scotland which, whether you like it or not is a distinct nation with its own devolved powers.

But, OK, forget Sturgeon, the First Ministers of both Wales and Northern Ireland (Arlene bloody Foster!) have both said they will stick with the "Stay Home" message for now. Even the Director of London's Chamber of Commerce has urged people not to go to work until further clarification is available.

You can wish for unity all you like, but in the present circumstances that requires strong leadership and transparency. The government has failed in every respect and the buck stops with Boris.
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I’m now actually of the view that I wish Sturgeon well in her mission. I admire her conviction and hope she succeeds (once the share of the exploding UK national debt has been repaid of course).

I don’t really have a view on Foster but as for Drakeford making a decision, you might as well ask the cat.
 
SteveG said:
That is the preference of the Scottish government but of course they can't follow along when the UK government comes out with such abject stupidity.
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The Scottish Government are not legally obligated to do so, under the devolution agreement. I cannot believe I'm going to say this, but at least the Scottish leaders are being more media savvy that their southern equivalents.

Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
You've just explained, quite clearly, why many people's situations will be different. So I genuinely don't understand why you think that demonstrates a need for a common approach and consistent UK-wide policy.
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This was always going to be the case. You also get the impression that any major or critical incident modelling that informed any devolution considerations/agreements was either not done, not considered, or hasn't been reviewed and control measures put in place.
 
Ponty said:
SNIP

Boris was very recently elected UK PM with a thumping majority. He makes the rules, like it or not.
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Scotland has never been fully integrated with England after the Treaty of Union, retaining its separate religious, educational and legal systems.

Since the re-establishment of the Scottish Parliament in 1999, increasing areas of responsibility have been devolved to the Scottish Government, including the NHS and public health, whether you like it or not - you're continued, and frankly pathetic, attempts to diminish the Scottish Government, by likening it to little more than a council, does not change the facts.

England voted for the Tories currently in power at Westminster, Scotland did not.
 
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