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Coronavirus - the new strain VII

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mandryka said:
i don’t buy the line of thinking in this article.

The left need to support a return to work and school to avoid a social and economic disaster which will hit the working class as much as anyone else, if not more than anyone else; and everyone will be hit by the social, financial and health costs of a second spike, not least the rich.

Is the idea that people should be trusted to take their own decisions about risk a right wing thing? What do the socialists say about this? That they should be directed, instructed what to do? (Sounds very fascist to me!)
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I think most of us realise the govt is caught between a rock and a hard place but imo relaxing the lockdown now is the worst thing they could do. I fear that relaxing the lockdown at this stage will allow this ugly virus to attack again. Tbh I'm glad I was laid off just before Easter as I don't have any work to go back to. There's no way I'd want to go back on a construction site right now. The other sad fact is that many people will be forced back to work knowing it may be unsafe to do so.
 
gavreid said:
Rowena Mason has it about right I think

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ws-he-has-been-swayed-by-hawks-in-his-cabinet
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The confusion is just another sign of a warring cabinet team under an absentee landlord. The divisive nature of it hasn’t just split the UK into two separate blocks, it has divided the public in England and if it divides employee from employer, I can see mass industrial action. I simply don’t believe that with the highest death rate in the world outside America and with this shambolic leadership that the public are prepared to trust Johnson with their lives.
Look at his record, he split Britain in two over Brexit and he is doing the same now. I thought he might have upped his game, now that he’s PM in a national crisis- a chance to show how good a Churchill impersonator he really is but Im afraid the best predictor of future behaviour is as always, past behaviour. caveat emptor.
 
Ponty said:
The preference and primary aim of the Scottish govt is independence. They don’t want unity at all. It’s not a question of the best way to navigate this (and nobody knows right now), Sturgeon will take a different path just because she can.
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Put the two intellects side by side.
Put the quality of advice side by side.
To see this as somehow a step towards an independent Scotland, and therefore advice not to be followed is not a smart deduction.
It's England that is out of step, out of step with sense, science and competence.
 
richardg said:
Well I have been threatened with a fine for crossing the date out on my justicatif. It needs to be a new one for every journey out the house, according to one fed.

What if I don't have a printer or cant use a computer? That's really fvking stupid. You can't go out.

My printer ran out of paper. So I broke the law and and with reckless abandon went to the supermarket with no papers.

Also, I now carry my other form about needing to go to work wherever I go. That pretty much covers me for all eventualities across the city.

So it's all bollocks really. The biggest impact I note is the significant police presence on the streets. But as the French have 50% more police than UK, it doesn't surprise me. but I think that is what works, not photocopied shite.

Rock n roll.
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For the past several weeks, you could have done the whole thing online. No need for any printer.
Or use an erasable pen.
 
Ponty said:
Nobody here in Wales listens to Drakeford, he’s a complete non entity. From what I observed last week people are starting to go about their business. All this political posturing from him and Sturgeon is just unhelpful and confuses the key messaging. There are massive regional variances within England, Wales, Scotland and NI which make the of a lack of coordinated approach totally irresponsible.
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Yeah, England needs to wise up and get in line. And stop that thing under the rock in No10 slipping out his undermining briefings, before he kills us all.
 
mandryka said:
Is the idea that people should be trusted to take their own decisions about risk a right wing thing? What do the socialists say about this? That they should be directed, instructed what to do? (Sounds very fascist to me!)
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As ever with two-party UK politics it is steeped in the ancient history of mill owners vs. mill-workers etc, in fact you could even take it back to the days of landed gentry and slaveowners. Ours is an archaic and largely obsolete politics, but in this case it still has resonance as in many areas that divide still exists. There is still a huge wealth and power imbalance even if the workplace has changed, e.g. the right-wing bosses of JD Wetherspoons, Sports Direct or whatever still get to call the working classes back into their clearly dangerous work environments from the luxury of a very safe distance (their yacht, country estate or wherever).

The public sector is in a similarly dangerous position, but are hopefully better represented. In what part of a teacher’s, librarian or museum worker’s employment contract is there a clause saying they are expected to work in a clearly life-threatening viral biohazard, or that they are not? As ever it boils down to power, and many people working in this country have none in any real sense. Traditionally Labour has represented the powerless against the powerful, but it has lost its way as the global workplace has altered so much.

We should also not forget how lucky so many of us here are. As an example I’m very far from wealthy, technically a low-wage earner, but I have enough assets and resources to stick my middle finger up to government for as long as I need to as I still have some income coming in working from home along with zero debt, plus my savings etc. I define my work, no one else. That puts me in a powerful position as I don’t need to give a shit what Johnson, Hancock, the king of Brexitspoons or whatever say. They don’t represent me, I don’t trust what they say in the slightest, and I easily can afford to ignore them. I pity those who can’t.
 
The leaders of three of the four constituent parts that make up the United Kingdom first heard about the content of Johnson’s speech to the public by reading it in newspapers. In other words their editors were told before the leaders of N. Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Actually that’s wrong- the commercial press were told and the leaders weren’t. So tell me who is sowing division? Maybe it’s not deliberate- it was Sunday after all and would have required the effort of picking up the phone.
 
Ponty said:
The preference and primary aim of the Scottish govt is independence. They don’t want unity at all. It’s not a question of the best way to navigate this (and nobody knows right now), Sturgeon will take a different path just because she can.
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Your obvious contempt for Sturgeon might carry more weight if Boris Johnson had delivered a clearer message yesterday. In the absence of such clarity she is right to do what's best for Scotland which, whether you like it or not is a distinct nation with its own devolved powers.

But, OK, forget Sturgeon, the First Ministers of both Wales and Northern Ireland (Arlene bloody Foster!) have both said they will stick with the "Stay Home" message for now. Even the Director of London's Chamber of Commerce has urged people not to go to work until further clarification is available.

You can wish for unity all you like, but in the present circumstances that requires strong leadership and transparency. The government has failed in every respect and the buck stops with Boris.
 
I.D.C. said:
this is about the safety of people for goodness sake.
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Of course, but there has to be a consistent policy UK wide. I live in Wales but am a million miles away from someone living in a flat in the middle of Cardiff. In the same way you are from someone living in Edinburgh. We have a different risk profile based on the environment in which we live, whether that’s in England, NI, Scotland or Wales is irrelevant. Should individual councils set the rules accordingly? Of course not. Boris was very recently elected UK PM with a thumping majority. He makes the rules, like it or not.
 
Ponty said:
Of course, but there has to be a consistent policy UK wide. I live in Wales but am a million miles away from someone living in a flat in the middle of Cardiff. In the same way you are from someone living in Edinburgh. We have a different risk profile based on the environment in which we live, whether that’s in England, NI, Scotland or Wales is irrelevant. Should individual councils set the rules accordingly? Of course not. Boris was very recently elected UK PM with a thumping majority. He makes the rules, like it or not.
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You've just explained, quite clearly, why many people's situations will be different. So I genuinely don't understand why you think that demonstrates a need for a common approach and consistent UK-wide policy.

But, secondly, if three national leaders are in agreement, and one is not, why do the three have to get in step with the odd one out?
 
Nero said:
Can I go sailing yet?
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I was chatting to a mate in Dartmouth yesterday. Total lockdown on the water. Apparently the Naval College are treating any breaking of the rules as a training exercise! Loads of boats growing gardens underneath, you can’t even take them out of the water!
 
gavreid said:
Certainly. The rightwing are winning just now, which is where Mason was coming from I think...
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If true, and I'm inclined to agree, then Boris' inconsistent messaging starts to smell like self-preservation. He knows if he doesn't toe the party line, he's toast, but he also wants to be remembered by the people as a great PM in the Churchillian mould. It is his tragedy* that the two are incompatible.

*oh dear, what a shame, never mind...
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
If true, and I'm inclined to agree, then Boris' inconsistent messaging starts to smell like self-preservation. He knows if he doesn't toe the party line, he's toast, but he also wants to be remembered by the people as a great PM in the Churchillian mould. It is his tragedy* that the two are incompatible.

*oh dear, what a shame, never mind...
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I think that's right - that's where I am with it anyway
 
We have a once in a hundred years public health emergency combined with a failure of political leadership. Johnson should not be aping Trump and Bolsonaro.
 
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