Brexit: give me a positive effect (2023 ‘Epic Fail’ box set edition)

[matt j]

As for you, you're excellent on facts, but lamentable on the truths that weave themselves above, below and between them. The distinction is of particular importance when considering anything to do with the functions of the EU institutions.

'im and his bloody facts eh? Getting in the way of ten paragraphs of toss. The effin liberty!

 

[Nick_G]

Unusually candid and revealing. I didn't miss the multiple use of 'I' and 'me'.

You are an anywhere - wealthy, well-educated, cultured, erudite, someone in a position to enjoy the manifold possibilities and comfortable, easy enrichment of living and working in, or retiring to, anywhere you fancy. Content - as in personally content - is a good word. Smug is another. But then, you are no so much smug as you are angry, and your anger brings out something that is far beyond, and often well below, erudite. You see, people like you are used to getting their own way, and in 2016 the comfortable existence in which all your easy certainties were enshrined was shattered, and it was shattered not by what you perceive as 'people like you', but by the great unwashed, the somewheres, people physically, economically and culturally rooted to some or another filthy, post-industrial or agricultural backwater for whom the EU represented just another layer of cold, distant, impenetrable government in hoc to the same - but yet bigger - brutish capitalism that had belittled them, and their fathers, and grandfathers.

Yet what you find even harder to accept is that, of the 17.5 repulsive million, a full third weren't the thick, uneducated pantomime xenophobes of your increasingly fevered caricaturisation, but people just like you - educated, outgoing, worldly, successful and intelligent (a third of brexit voters had educational attainments which exceeded the remain average). And it is for them that you reserve your greatest contempt, and for whom you have tirelessly engaged your rapier sarcasm into characterising as closet racists.

I'm sorry that your pound doesn't stretch to as many Euros (neither does mine, and my livelihood is probably more implicated in it than yours), that you can't get mail order from Europe, that you may have suffered a few minutes extra delay at an airport, or that you can't find the same range of goods and foodstuffs (really, you poor thing, I've had no issues?), but if you'll really take the EU over Westminster anytime, then please don't ever expect me to take you seriously when you hold forth about 'democracy'.

If you are defending the have-nots you are describing in your post above, then why did you vote for something that would take away even more from them?

 

[Kirk]

He does tell us this. Over and over again. But it's not true. How do I hope Boris Johnson to account for lying to parliament? Breaking the law? Losing evidence. We all know that he has done all this. If I "lost" evidence relating to a crime I would probably be charged with perverting the course of justice. Yet BJ is still an MP. Accountable? Hardly.

Oh, and do tell me how I can remove Boris Johnson from office, living as I do in Leeds.

And let's not forget trying to upend the pesky British courts - can't be accountable to them either.

The good news on the Boris front is that he did a splendid job of removing himself, at least from No.10.

 

[SteveS1]

Now it’s ET Scargill, champion of the UK downtrodden while sneering at people who most probably make up a fair proportion of his customer base. Those vicious and evil EU structures and institutions. Anyone would think that the UK was not represented or had less agency than their partners - oh woe was us. Poor UK.

You have to love the new Trotsky act, concern for the have-nots now seems to know no bounds when it comes to fighting the good fight against the EU, but strangely seemed to be totally absent when it came to supporting and voting for the people who really screwed them and continue to do so.

This bit was a doozy.

people physically, economically and culturally rooted to some or another filthy, post-industrial or agricultural backwater for whom the EU represented just another layer of cold, distant, impenetrable government in hoc to the same - but yet bigger - brutish capitalism that had belittled them, and their fathers, and grandfathers.

Remember all those would be Brexit voters complaining about brutish capitalism? Day after day, public vox pops compaining about the EU being “another layer of cold, distant, impenetrable government”. Except they didn’t.

Instead, we got relentless populist anti-immigration and nationalist propaganda with industrial scale deceit from UK brutish capitalists and their client media seeking to remove or avoid regulation, tax scrutiny, monopoly media controls, employment and environmental protections to exploit this population more efficiently. Facts indeed.

Still, a positive to cheer and improve the lot of the Brexit voter.

Spanish woman removed from UK after returning from Christmas holiday

Woman was detained overnight and removed despite presenting Home Office documents showing her right to work and live in UK

www.theguardian.com

 

[TheDecameron]

If you are defending the have-nots you are describing in your post above, then why did you vote for something that would take away even more from them?

…nouveaux African farmers. You might have noticed it’s the latest Reform pitch but that’s merely coincidence because EV has never heard of them

 

[TheDecameron]

Now it’s ET Scargill, champion of the UK downtrodden while sneering at people who most probably make up a fair proportion of his customer base. Those vicious and evil EU structures and institutions. Anyone would think that the UK was not represented or had less agency than their partners - oh woe was us. Poor UK.

You have to love the new Trotsky act, concern for the have-nots now seems to know no bounds when it comes to fighting the good fight against the EU, but strangely seemed to be totally absent when it came to supporting and voting for the people who really screwed them and continue to do so.

This bit was a doozy.



Remember all those would be Brexit voters complaining about brutish capitalism? Day after day, public vox pops compaining about the EU being “another layer of cold, distant, impenetrable government”. Except they didn’t.

Instead, we got relentless populist anti-immigration and nationalist propaganda with industrial scale deceit from UK brutish capitalists and their client media seeking to remove or avoid regulation, tax scrutiny, monopoly media controls, employment and environmental protections to exploit this population more efficiently. Facts indeed.

Still, a positive to cheer and improve the lot of the Brexit voter.

Spanish woman removed from UK after returning from Christmas holiday

Woman was detained overnight and removed despite presenting Home Office documents showing her right to work and live in UK

www.theguardian.com

As Noel Coward sang- Don’t Put Your Daughter on The Stage Mrs Worthington.

 

[stevec67]

Now it’s ET Scargill, champion of the UK downtrodden while sneering at people who most probably make up a fair proportion of his customer base. Those vicious and evil EU structures and institutions. Anyone would think that the UK was not represented or had less agency than their partners - oh woe was us. Poor UK.

You have to love the new Trotsky act, concern for the have-nots now seems to know no bounds when it comes to fighting the good fight against the EU, but strangely seemed to be totally absent when it came to supporting and voting for the people who really screwed them and continue to do so.

This bit was a doozy.



Remember all those would be Brexit voters complaining about brutish capitalism? Day after day, public vox pops compaining about the EU being “another layer of cold, distant, impenetrable government”. Except they didn’t.

Instead, we got relentless populist anti-immigration and nationalist propaganda with industrial scale deceit from UK brutish capitalists and their client media seeking to remove or avoid regulation, tax scrutiny, monopoly media controls, employment and environmental protections to exploit this population more efficiently. Facts indeed.

Still, a positive to cheer and improve the lot of the Brexit voter.

Spanish woman removed from UK after returning from Christmas holiday

Woman was detained overnight and removed despite presenting Home Office documents showing her right to work and live in UK

www.theguardian.com

Deported to Spain? She should think herself lucky. Could have been Rwanda. That'll teach her, coming over here with the correct documentation and a right of residency. Her sister had a baby? I bet she was trying to get in too.

 

[PsB]

As for you, you're excellent on facts, but lamentable on the truths that weave themselves above, below and between them. The distinction is of particular importance when considering anything to do with the functions of the EU institutions.

I like this image you wheel out of truths woven around/below/between facts. Like invasive Arts & Crafts forms

(your favourites Guy and Jean-Claude are in there somewhere).
I'd imagine that weaving of yours would occasionally require some heating and bending for best results.

 

[TheDecameron]

Freddy Kruger, leading member of the new cons,
“Brexit will be the great standing achievement of our time in office”.

Itll be part of the inscription on their political grave stone ( under cause of death).

 

[eternumviti]

If you are defending the have-nots you are describing in your post above, then why did you vote for something that would take away even more from them?

I'm not defending them. They had agency, and I'm sure they're capable of defending themselves.

 

[eternumviti]

He does tell us this. Over and over again. But it's not true. How do I hope Boris Johnson to account for lying to parliament? Breaking the law? Losing evidence. We all know that he has done all this. If I "lost" evidence relating to a crime I would probably be charged with perverting the course of justice. Yet BJ is still an MP. Accountable? Hardly.

Oh, and do tell me how I can remove Boris Johnson from office, living as I do in Leeds.

Boris Johnson has been removed from office, and is no longer an MP. Keep up.

 

[stevec67]

Boris Johnson has been removed from office, and is no longer an MP. Keep up.

I know. What about all the other lying bastards who were at the same parties and all the rest?
The notion that we as an electorate can hold them accountable is farcical.

 

[eternumviti]

Now it’s ET Scargill, champion of the UK downtrodden while sneering at people who most probably make up a fair proportion of his customer base.

Ooh, the only sneering on here comes from people like you, and it's pretty constant.

I'm actually aware of only one customer who is as furious as the assembled pfm gang about Brexit. He is a pompous, pontificating multimillionaire farmer with a vast letting business who is incandescent about the loss of a couple of hundred thousand quid that he used to receive buck shee from the taxpayer courtesy of the CAP.

I think he's calmed down just a bit since he received planning permission to turn a few hundred acres over to a solar project, at £1k an acre per year.

Those vicious and evil EU structures and institutions. Anyone would think that the UK was not represented or had less agency than their partners - oh woe was us. Poor UK.

Would they? I certainly didn't. The UK was a strong proponent of the EU's structures, the more impenetrable the better.

You have to love the new Trotsky act, concern for the have-nots now seems to know no bounds when it comes to fighting the good fight against the EU, but strangely seemed to be totally absent when it came to supporting and voting for the people who really screwed them and continue to do so.

It's a process, Steve.

Remember all those would be Brexit voters complaining about brutish capitalism? Day after day, public vox pops compaining about the EU being “another layer of cold, distant, impenetrable government”. Except they didn’t.

I'm not sure what a vox pop is, but there was no shortage of information and commentary about the EU, its serial, unauthorised power grabs and its contempt for democracy. I can only conclude that you were doing the three monkeys act.

Instead, we got relentless populist anti-immigration and nationalist propaganda with industrial scale deceit from UK brutish capitalists and their client media seeking to remove or avoid regulation, tax scrutiny, monopoly media controls, employment and environmental protections to exploit this population more efficiently. Facts indeed.

The EU provides bigcorp with far more effective cover than Westminster. It's all about accountability, or lack of it, which is why Brussels is crawling with well remunerated industrial lobbyists, 30 odd thousand of them. I don't disagree at all with the notion that the Westminster house now needs to be put in order. One thing at a time.

Talking of environmental protections, one of the biggest sponsors of that world-class environment destroyer, the CAP, was the lobbying body for my wealthy barley-cum-shed-cum-solar Baron friend upstream, the NFU. The NFU, unsurprisingly, did not support Brexit.

 

[eternumviti]

I know.

Well why did you ask the question?

What about all the other lying bastards who were at the same parties and all the rest?
The notion that we as an electorate can hold them accountable is farcical.

They'll be culled at the ballot box next year. That's accountable. It ain't perfect, but the alternative hasn't got a great reputation either.

 

[stevec67]

. The NFU, unsurprisingly, did not support Brexit.

Funny how the farmers did, by almost 2 to 1. See here: https://www.bidwells.co.uk/what-we-think/rural-spectator-farmers-weekly-eu-referendum-poll/

 

[stevec67]

They'll be culled at the ballot box next year.

Some may

That's accountable.

In a pig's eye.

It ain't perfect,

You got that bit right at least.

 

[eternumviti]

Funny how the farmers did, by almost 2 to 1. See here: https://www.bidwells.co.uk/what-we-think/rural-spectator-farmers-weekly-eu-referendum-poll/

Isn't it.

 

[SteveS1]

Ooh, the only sneering on here comes from people like you, and it's pretty constant.

I'm actually aware of only one customer who is as furious as the assembled pfm gang about Brexit. He is a pompous, pontificating multimillionaire farmer with a vast letting business who is incandescent about the loss of a couple of hundred thousand quid that he used to receive buck shee from the taxpayer courtesy of the CAP.

I think he's calmed down just a bit since he received planning permission to turn a few hundred acres over to a solar project, at £1k an acre per year.

There you go again. physician cure thyself. Your accusations are invariably confessional.

I'm not sure what a vox pop is, but there was no shortage of information and commentary about the EU, its serial, unauthorised power grabs and its contempt for democracy. I can only conclude that you were doing the three monkeys act.

Not at all. It’s purely a question of perspective and priority. I fully understand why you are so desperate to hang on to this threadbare justification - after all there is nothing else.

Threadbare because if you were genuinely concerned with democracy and accountability you would have been far more focussed on the UK political and corporate lack of accountability including patronage, electoral gerrymandering, unelected chambers, safe seats permitting what are effectively political appointments and so on. Instead, you have been a consistent supporter of it and voter for it. The idea that the EU’s governance and structures were at the heart of the Leave campaign beyond a minority who were more concerned with obtaining more power for themselves, is just not true.

The apathy toward such matters among the UK population was regularly demonstrated with low turnouts for MEP elections, encouraged by the UK political classes and their friends in the British press, with a combination of outright lies such as Johnson’s ‘bendy bananas’ or a lack of informative coverage.

Antipathy and hatred toward the EU had to be determinedly created over many years with misinformation and scaremongering, but never got anywhere near membership threatening levels until the financial crash and more crucially the migrant crisis. This of course proved pivotal as the extreme right wing saw their opportunity to attack immigration and link it entirely to freedom of movement. A perfect Trojan horse to remove restrictions to their excess and so it has proved.

Your amusing attempt to drag this into high-minded concern for the have-nots I put down to too much Sunday sherry, because it’s an entirely disingenuous re-write of what Brexit has been.

 

[Kirk]

What a fun thread - Groundhog Day (but w/o Andie MacDowell). And to keep things going:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rom-uk-after-returning-from-christmas-holiday

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...t-sized-benefits-are-a-measure-of-its-failure

 

[TheDecameron]

I know. What about all the other lying bastards who were at the same parties and all the rest?
The notion that we as an electorate can hold them accountable is farcical.

EV just needs to keep repeating this little irrelevance. Despite Turnip Island now being ‘sovereign’ once again, Johnson was able to commit gross misconduct in office starting with his unlawful closure of Parliament and lying to the Queen, for three full years. The public couldn’t rid themselves of him, that task fell to his reluctant MPs many of whom owed their existence to him, after he lied *to them* just once too often.

His party just kept finding a replacement, one of whom caused a run on U.K. Govt bonds and lasted just six weeks in office. They’ve permanently devalued the pound, wrecked the economy and public services and have failed to account for £billions in public money, some of which we know went to friends and family, yet they will live out their prescribed five year reign with no ability for the public to dismiss them while they lied, partied and had their hands in the till.