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Brexit: give me a positive effect (2023 ‘Epic Fail’ box set edition)

Paul L said:
Thanks for the considered reply PsB, genuinely. Steve & Steve -must try harder.

So basically we’re f—-ed economically and no option to paddling down the left side, not that it matters as the debt, decaying infrastructure and slide down the global ladder will be dire as a red government always is but presumably less of it in the pockets of the elite.
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Must try harder? Try answering a question when one is asked. Otherwise be prepared for a fatuous statement to be treated accordingly. I think our replies were remarkably considered in view of the raw material.
 
I missed the question. In my lifetime the Tories have trousered everything they can, labour has collapsed industry and incurred huge debt, the Lib Dem’s have lied and done anything for power, all parties have been in the trough on the expenses scandal, all have their fingerprints on the post office scandal and the only thing I see is that anything right of hard left is now considered to be hard right. Politics has always bewildered me to be honest which is why I generally stay away from it. So if I’ve bruised some egos and neglected sage comments then it’s down to the above and terrible media coverage at times and I’m possibly typical of the masses who find it less stressful to steer clear of it but struggle nevertheless to understand exactly what kind of country fellow inhabitants want to live in.
 
Paul L said:
I’ve always thought post-Brexit would fail due to the poor quality of our politicians, vested interests in businesses and wrong negotiation stance. I may be wrong of course.

But to hypothesise, what would have happened if the UK ignored the EU for 2 years having made the decision to leave and instead pressed on with confidential trade deals with the US, Canada, Asia and the commonwealth and with a forward plan in place then turned up to the EU ‘negotiations’ with 1 leader and 2 lawyers? Where is your negotiating team UK? We’re here. No, your team, how can you expect to negotiate without a large team? We told you we’re leaving, we’re here to tie up loose ends. There’s no £60billion to hand over, just a bit of paperwork to sort out. You’re finished UK, you get nothing from us now, no German cars, nothing. That’s okay it’s going to be a rocky ride making the transition for sure but we’ve got all our next generation arrangements in place and they start today. If the UK market is one that’s important to you let us know and we’ll put some arrangements in place, it won’t be the hobson’s choice you have in mind though.

No doubt the specialists here will unpick this and I’ll read with interest.
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It’s like one of those daydreams a 12 year old might entertain after seeing The Italian Job isn’t it?
 
Paul L said:
I’m possibly typical of the masses who find it less stressful to steer clear of it but struggle nevertheless to understand exactly what kind of country fellow inhabitants want to live in.
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I agree it would be less stressful not to look, but if you hadn’t steered well clear - you might have recognised that many of our fellow inhabitants were sold a large distraction from domestic incompetence and failure.

Despite being EU members on terms many other members states envied or resented, we could apparently enjoy similar freedoms and standards of living without having to make any of the same contributions and compromises required to obtain them. What’s not to like? We could save the contributions to shared administration and services, lose economies of scale, re-erect previously removed trade barriers, increase costs and lose bloc sized negotiating power. We could also just re-staff all our industries and services heavily dependent on EU nationals with local people in the face of our rapidly declining working age population. All without any negative impact on our economy and growth prospects.

The task for those arguing against such fantasy was having to prove negatives in the face of a mountain of baseless optimism, deluded nostalgia and bluster. The road to repair some of this damage involves more than just pointing to the absence of the claimed benefits. It requires enough people to face up to the self-inflicted aspects of our deterioration and resolve to take steps to start walking back the most damaging aspects and build on that. There is no going back to the terms and benefits we once enjoyed but there is much progress to be made.
 
SteveS1 said:
I agree it would be less stressful not to look, but if you hadn’t steered well clear - you might have recognised that many of our fellow inhabitants were sold a large distraction from domestic incompetence and failure.

Despite being EU members on terms many other members states envied or resented, we could apparently enjoy similar freedoms and standards of living without having to make any of the same contributions and compromises required to obtain them. What’s not to like? We could save the contributions to shared administration and services, lose economies of scale, re-erect previously removed trade barriers, increase costs and lose bloc sized negotiating power. We could also just re-staff all our industries and services heavily dependent on EU nationals with local people in the face of our rapidly declining working age population. All without any negative impact on our economy and growth prospects.

The task for those arguing against such fantasy was having to prove negatives in the face of a mountain of baseless optimism, deluded nostalgia and bluster. The road to repair some of this damage involves more than just pointing to the absence of the claimed benefits. It requires enough people to face up to the self-inflicted aspects of our deterioration and resolve to take steps to start walking back the most damaging aspects and build on that. There is no going back to the terms and benefits we once enjoyed but there is much progress to be made.
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And so far we have spent more on trying to make Brexit work than we spent on our membership fee.
 
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