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Brexit: give me a positive effect (2023 ‘Epic Fail’ box set edition)

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ff1d1l said:
No, because little-englander is a pejorative term, with racist, gammon and brexit-voting connotations. Not a common set of attributes in Scotland. Neither is Scotland little, 32 percent of the uk.
I don't think the little-englander is common in england - just carefully nurtured and enjoying disproportionate political influence.
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Oddly enough, of Scots who voted, 38% voted to leave the EU.

Spraggons Den said:
Erm not so much ascribing significance - more like recognising that he had demolished poor old ff1dls argument again who TBF is in good company. PsB is the only one to really get a nick on him. All imho of course.
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Pah, PsB doesn't get near me. He just recites facts.
 
Spraggons Den said:
I thought the phrase ‘The sound of a man drowning‘ nicely captured your flailing about in response to EV. But hey it’s a bit generic and given your unique contribution to PF, I thought to myself FF1dl deserves better and hence the upgrade or bespoke personalisation to ‘The sound of a Welshman drowning’.

The only way, to my mind at least, is that it could be construed as vaguely racist, never mind borderline racist, would be if there was some kind of historical association between the Welsh and drowning or maybe being bad swimmers. If not then it’s just a fact - you are a Welshman - nothing to be ashamed off and in contrast to the evil, feckless, gammon, brexit voting English.
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Yes, nothing here that you haven't come up with before.
The facts are, you wrote a post inending to derogatory about me and my very reasonable decision to not engage with the fact-impervious ET. As part of your little armoury of pejorative/offensive idioms - I had my arse handed me, I was a drowning man, you decided to include my nationality for added impact, and the only way that to work in the context you were using it was if you thought it increased the pejorative or risible impact of your post. Shits and giggles, indeed. You can wriggle all you like, but there isn't really another interpretation available, is there?
As always substitution is instructive, so how about the pants wettingly funny pogrom favourite "Drowning Jew", the nudge in the ribs to fellow clan members of the "Drowning negro" the unsaid but dog whistle included f.o.c. (no dogs or) Drowning Irishman.
You would have used one of these in your post, if I were able to be so described?
 
eternumviti said:
There's no pretense. If you can't vote for a system, you have no influence over change. I too want our politicians to be looking over their shoulders. The only politicians answerable to the electorates within the EU system are the MEPs, who are almost certainly acting in their own interests, have comparatively little influence over laws and taxation, and work within a system that is almost entirely geared towards the the process of federalisation. Due to its remoteness from the electorates, it is also even more subject to the influence of corporate lobbyists than Westminster.
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We do have concrete evidence of certain former UK MEPs acting in their own interest.
 
TheDecameron said:
Thing is EV, I was entirely content- economically, culturally, politically- with life in Europe. Now I pay more, travel less freely, can’t buy and sell in the EU, don’t have the same range of goods and foodstuffs I previously enjoyed, my £ goes much less far abroad and I’m sick of the lousy incompetent crooks who brought this shit down on me and who are currently running the U.K. into a fail state. Still, I can always vote them out- five years after they’ve smashed the place. I’ll take the EU anytime over Westminster.
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Unusually candid and revealing. I didn't miss the multiple use of 'I' and 'me'.

You are an anywhere - wealthy, well-educated, cultured, erudite, someone in a position to enjoy the manifold possibilities and comfortable, easy enrichment of living and working in, or retiring to, anywhere you fancy. Content - as in personally content - is a good word. Smug is another. But then, you are no so much smug as you are angry, and your anger brings out something that is far beyond, and often well below, erudite. You see, people like you are used to getting their own way, and in 2016 the comfortable existence in which all your easy certainties were enshrined was shattered, and it was shattered not by what you perceive as 'people like you', but by the great unwashed, the somewheres, people physically, economically and culturally rooted to some or another filthy, post-industrial or agricultural backwater for whom the EU represented just another layer of cold, distant, impenetrable government in hoc to the same - but yet bigger - brutish capitalism that had belittled them, and their fathers, and grandfathers.

Yet what you find even harder to accept is that, of the 17.5 repulsive million, a full third weren't the thick, uneducated pantomime xenophobes of your increasingly fevered caricaturisation, but people just like you - educated, outgoing, worldly, successful and intelligent (a third of brexit voters had educational attainments which exceeded the remain average). And it is for them that you reserve your greatest contempt, and for whom you have tirelessly engaged your rapier sarcasm into characterising as closet racists.

I'm sorry that your pound doesn't stretch to as many Euros (neither does mine, and my livelihood is probably more implicated in it than yours), that you can't get mail order from Europe, that you may have suffered a few minutes extra delay at an airport, or that you can't find the same range of goods and foodstuffs (really, you poor thing, I've had no issues?), but if you'll really take the EU over Westminster anytime, then please don't ever expect me to take you seriously when you hold forth about 'democracy'.
 
eternumviti said:
The first and most important advantage of brexit is that it has made the politicians who make our laws more directly accountable to the demos, rather than entirely unaccountable. This is regardless of the manifold inadequacies of the current government, and is an irrefutable fact.
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Is this true? We seem to be entering a period of democratic deficit, where the Conservative Party membership rule supreme.
 
Kirk said:
Is this true? We seem to be entering a period of democratic deficit, where the Conservative Party membership rule supreme.
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There's undoubtedly a democratic deficit in the UK, probably largely due the the antiquated fptp two party system, but the institutions of the EU exist in a virtual democratic vacuum. As for conservative party membership, really? The conservative party is imploding in front of our eyes.
 
ff1d1l said:
Yes, nothing here that you haven't come up with before.
The facts are, you wrote a post inending to derogatory about me and my very reasonable decision to not engage with the fact-impervious ET. As part of your little armoury of pejorative/offensive idioms - I had my arse handed me, I was a drowning man, you decided to include my nationality for added impact, and the only way that to work in the context you were using it was if you thought it increased the pejorative or risible impact of your post. Shits and giggles, indeed. You can wriggle all you like, but there isn't really another interpretation available, is there?
As always substitution is instructive, so how about the pants wettingly funny pogrom favourite "Drowning Jew", the nudge in the ribs to fellow clan members of the "Drowning negro" the unsaid but dog whistle included f.o.c. (no dogs or) Drowning Irishman.
You would have used one of these in your post, if I were able to be so described?
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Word salad/Toss. AFAIK you are not Jewish and you are not a negro, Both of these groups have suffered from discrimination and oppression - the Welsh, not so much. Just sayin.
 
Kirk said:
Is this true? We seem to be entering a period of democratic deficit, where the Conservative Party membership rule supreme.
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Look at the unprecedented lawlessness that has taken place in the heart of UKGovt since you were last able to vote in 2019. They could continue unimpeded until this time next year if they so chose. Still, mustn’t grumble ( points across the Channel to those “unelected structures” that comprise the European Union).
 
PsB said:
TBH, I've largely kicked that habit, as you've demonstrated over the years that you're quite impervious to those.
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Thoroughly disingenuous - on the contrary (and well you know it) my factual grasp of the functions, structure and governance of the institutions of the EU comfortably exceeds that of the overwhelming majority of its greatest acolytes here on this forum, as much for the bizarre reason that enthusiasm for the EU seems to be inversely proportional to any form of intellectual curiosity as to how it actually functions, than that I go to some lengths, as best I can, to inform myself about it.

As for you, you're excellent on facts, but lamentable on the truths that weave themselves above, below and between them. The distinction is of particular importance when considering anything to do with the functions of the EU institutions.
 
Spraggons Den said:
Word salad/Toss. AFAIK you are not Jewish and you are not a negro, Both of these groups have suffered from discrimination and oppression - the Welsh, not so much. Just sayin.
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I wasn't saying I was.

Do some comprehension excercises.

I see you got a like from ET - probably because your post contained toss, word salad and no facts. I imagine now he's latched onto your m.o. you can expect many more.

In the meantime, examine my points and refute them properly, or hold your hands up that you tried to employ my nationality as a pejorative term, in a way that was borderline racist. Nothing you've written subsequently cuts it, apart from the term shits and giggles, which I take you meant literally, and digs you in deeper.


Here's a link you might find instructive.

https://theconversation.com/why-racism-against-welsh-people-is-still-racism-96303
 
eternumviti said:
There's undoubtedly a democratic deficit in the UK, probably largely due the the antiquated fptp two party system, but the institutions of the EU exist in a virtual democratic vacuum. As for conservative party membership, really? The conservative party is imploding in front of our eyes.
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Seems uncomfortably close to waffle. The democratic deficit is far more pronounced here (if you get beyond the GB News propaganda) than in the EU. The Conservatives are indeed imploding, largely because of Brexit. Irony at its finest.
 
TheDecameron said:
Look at the unprecedented lawlessness that has taken place in the heart of UKGovt since you were last able to vote in 2019. They could continue unimpeded until this time next year if they so chose. Still, mustn’t grumble ( points across the Channel to those “unelected structures” that comprise the European Union).
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But EV tells us our politicians are now more accountable - directly accountable.
 
eternumviti said:
As for you, you're excellent on facts, but lamentable on the truths that weave themselves above, below and between them. The distinction is of particular importance when considering anything to do with the functions of the EU institutions.
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Alternative facts?
 
Kirk said:
But EV tells us our politicians are now more accountable - directly accountable.
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He does tell us this. Over and over again. But it's not true. How do I hope Boris Johnson to account for lying to parliament? Breaking the law? Losing evidence. We all know that he has done all this. If I "lost" evidence relating to a crime I would probably be charged with perverting the course of justice. Yet BJ is still an MP. Accountable? Hardly.

Oh, and do tell me how I can remove Boris Johnson from office, living as I do in Leeds.
 
Spraggons Den said:
Word salad/Toss. AFAIK you are not Jewish and you are not a negro, Both of these groups have suffered from discrimination and oppression - the Welsh, not so much. Just sayin.
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The sound of a man who keeps on digging when he really should have stopped a long time ago...
 
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